Author Topic: Best Political Cartoons  (Read 950123 times)

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Online ironbite

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #5865 on: June 24, 2018, 03:31:53 pm »
No surprise Lana is still endorsing soft touch when it comes to Nazis.

Ironbite-fuck Nazis.

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #5866 on: June 24, 2018, 03:32:38 pm »
Nazi ideology is based on violence and genocide. They won't debate in good faith and will merely use the platform you give to them to spread lies and hate. They assault and murder people when given the chance. They demand freedom of speech for themselves but will silence those who oppose them and harass and doxx people to keep them from opposing Nazis.

I have sympathy for people who have fallen for their lies or truly can't find friends elsewhere but the ideology has no value to humanity and deserves no platform. If punching them when they come out to preach hate is what it takes to stop them then doing so is necessary.

And what if punching them has the opposite effect? Suppose violence against them were to embolden and radicalize them. Suppose it increased sympathy for them among the general public. Would you still endorse "punch a Nazi"?
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Offline Askold

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #5867 on: June 24, 2018, 04:18:23 pm »
You just hinted that Nazis aren't already radicalized. Are you lying or have lived under a rock for all of your life?
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
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Offline niam2023

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #5868 on: June 24, 2018, 04:20:41 pm »
It's Lana - the free speech absolutist that feels everyone deserves frozen peach...until you advocate punching Nazis, because that's just mean!
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Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #5869 on: June 24, 2018, 04:45:49 pm »
You just hinted that Nazis aren't already radicalized. Are you lying or have lived under a rock for all of your life?

Radicalized in action, not belief. I'm talking about acts of mass murder becoming more common.

It's Lana - the free speech absolutist that feels everyone deserves frozen peach...until you advocate punching Nazis, because that's just mean!

And because it could very well give them greater power. Read the article.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 04:47:46 pm by Lana Reverse »
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Online ironbite

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #5870 on: June 24, 2018, 04:55:25 pm »
My take?  Follow Doctor Jones' example.

Ironbite-throw Nazis into prop planes.

Offline The_Queen

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #5871 on: June 24, 2018, 05:09:14 pm »
Does anyone take Donald Trump seriously, anymore?

Offline Askold

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #5872 on: June 24, 2018, 05:19:43 pm »
Did you miss how the Neo-Nazis and KKK have assaulted and even killed people even before folks in USA began to punch them in the face? They never stopped killing people. The only difference is that it's been a while since actual Nazis have ruled countries.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Svata

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #5873 on: June 24, 2018, 07:04:33 pm »
You just hinted that Nazis aren't already radicalized. Are you lying or have lived under a rock for all of your life?

Radicalized in action, not belief. I'm talking about acts of mass murder becoming more common.


Ah, you're one of those. If we just don't bother the Nazis, and let them do what they want, they'll just... leave everyone alone. Because that's historically how it's worked. Leave them to their own devices and let them continue. Just give them what they want. Don't agitate them, don't rock the boat. Don't fight against them, they'll change their minds eventually.
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Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #5874 on: June 24, 2018, 09:01:46 pm »
Did you miss how the Neo-Nazis and KKK have assaulted and even killed people even before folks in USA began to punch them in the face? They never stopped killing people. The only difference is that it's been a while since actual Nazis have ruled countries.

And the "punch a Nazi" mentality could very well lead to them ruling countries again. Aren't you afraid of self-fulfilling prophecies? Because it's happened before.

You just hinted that Nazis aren't already radicalized. Are you lying or have lived under a rock for all of your life?

Radicalized in action, not belief. I'm talking about acts of mass murder becoming more common.


Ah, you're one of those. If we just don't bother the Nazis, and let them do what they want, they'll just... leave everyone alone. Because that's historically how it's worked. Leave them to their own devices and let them continue. Just give them what they want. Don't agitate them, don't rock the boat. Don't fight against them, they'll change their minds eventually.

I'm fine with fighting against Nazis. Rolling over and letting them have what they want is suicidal. What I'm against is the use of violence except in response to violence they commit.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 09:07:34 pm by Lana Reverse »
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Offline Svata

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #5875 on: June 24, 2018, 09:21:30 pm »
BEING. A. NAZI. IS. AN. ACT. OF. VIOLENCE.
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Offline Askold

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #5876 on: June 25, 2018, 03:53:18 am »
You know, the only person I've seen here deciding to help Nazis (supposedly) because they think that punching them is wrong, is Lana.

And I think it says more about Lana's political beliefs than it says about how sympathetic the Nazis are.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline The_Queen

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #5877 on: June 25, 2018, 06:50:21 am »
Did you miss how the Neo-Nazis and KKK have assaulted and even killed people even before folks in USA began to punch them in the face? They never stopped killing people. The only difference is that it's been a while since actual Nazis have ruled countries.

And the "punch a Nazi" mentality could very well lead to them ruling countries again. Aren't you afraid of self-fulfilling prophecies? Because it's happened before.

Actually, there was a robust debate among philosophers, scientists, and academics in the 1930’s about the ethics of Nazi punching, with several prominent people, including Satre and Popper, saying punch away. Even political philosophy’s resident hippy, John Rawls, is ambivalent on the issue, leaning towards punching.

To act like this punching Nazis is the cause for their rise when contemporaries said the opposite is a bold claim. And I would suggest you familiarize yourself with Popper in particular, who rightfully points out the threat from fascism to liberal democracies: specifically that they appeal to emotional and race-baiting (Huckabee’s Mexican tweet), tell their supporters to utilize violence (Dana Loesch and the NRA), and tell their followers to ignore other sources of information (Tucker Carlson). The end result, much like Richard Spencer admits, is to use and defend their free speech, before curtailing others. Immigrants are being cracked down on, separated from families, and essentially kept in black sites that Congressmen can’t visit. We’re past the point that Popper thinks we should tolerate; that is how robust and nuanced this debate has been for 70 years. I mean, Nazis were literally dancing in the streets before being punched: so please don’t act like punching them emboldens them, when the chicken (Nazis) certainly came before the egg (punching them).

Edit to Add/Clarify: and I do not mean to say "go and punch to your heart's content." Simply to say that I think there is a lot more nuance to whether nazi-punching is acceptable. Certainly, I think World War II was just, primarily because our use of military force overthrew Nazi-rule in Germany. If I can justify war between nations based on ideology and curtailing despotic "political views," certainly it becomes acceptable between people at some point. I do not think this is controversial, instead what I find controversial is Lana acting like this is an open and shut issue that is devoid of grey area. I don't purport to be the arbiter of when punching is acceptable, simply that I think Lana is taking another crack at Nazi-apologism.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 07:14:00 am by The_Queen »
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Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #5878 on: June 25, 2018, 07:56:17 am »
There is a valid point of concern if violence helps Nazi propaganda. I don't know if the concern troll misunderstands this or intentionally misrepresents it to add weight to it: this propaganda is not going to increase their support among the general public. What it might do is draw some people who already are in their close proximity even closer. Whether this is an important enough concern compared to allowing Nazis spread fear among vulnerable groups without countering it with direct action can be debated. When you have Nazi sympathizers among the public officials and police and the public institutions are rotten with racism it's tone deaf to tell the minorities to just trust the system to protect them.

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #5879 on: June 25, 2018, 10:25:01 am »
You know, the only person I've seen here deciding to help Nazis (supposedly) because they think that punching them is wrong, is Lana.

And I think it says more about Lana's political beliefs than it says about how sympathetic the Nazis are.

...Help Nazis? What?

There is a valid point of concern if violence helps Nazi propaganda. I don't know if the concern troll misunderstands this or intentionally misrepresents it to add weight to it: this propaganda is not going to increase their support among the general public. What it might do is draw some people who already are in their close proximity even closer. Whether this is an important enough concern compared to allowing Nazis spread fear among vulnerable groups without countering it with direct action can be debated. When you have Nazi sympathizers among the public officials and police and the public institutions are rotten with racism it's tone deaf to tell the minorities to just trust the system to protect them.

Okay, two things.

1. I'm not a concern troll.

2. More important, attacks on extremists can increase said extremists' support among the general public. It happened in Italy during the Cold War. Postwar Italy had a political party called the Italian Social Movement (MSI), which had significant neo-fascist elements. While it was a significant force for a time (mostly due to a strategic alliance with the Christian Democrats), it was pushed to the sidelines in 1960 and began to decline. It seemed like the party was doomed to irrelevance.

Then 1968 happened.

1968 was a turbulent year for many countries, and Italy was one of them. Among other things, it saw the beginning of a wave of far-left terrorism in the Italian Republic. Among the targets of these terrorist groups was the Italian Social Movement. Members of the party were assaulted, even assassinated, giving it greater sympathy among the Italian public. Combined with them being able to present themselves as defenders of law and order in the face of massive political upheaval, and they gained enormous support in the early 1970s, more than doubling their representation in both houses of the Italian Parliament. Even worse, a significant number of people either joined the MSI's more militant spinoffs (such as the National Vanguard and the New Order) or formed their own. These militant groups would go on to kill even more people than the left-wing extremists they sought to fight against.

So yeah, I have very good reasons to be against punching Nazis.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 10:50:26 am by Lana Reverse »
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