Author Topic: In case you thought Hungary is not a far right hell hole  (Read 7632 times)

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Offline kefkaownsall

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In case you thought Hungary is not a far right hell hole
« on: June 19, 2012, 01:02:56 am »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18497592
Basically TLDW version they are honoring this admiral who was the ruler who helped rebuild and fought the Russians during WWII.  Oh and killed countless Jews.  I dunno the idea of honoring people who aided the Nazi's in the holocaust is a little sketchy
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 01:28:39 am by kefkaownsall »

Offline Art Vandelay

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Re: In case you thought Hungary is not a theocracy
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2012, 01:23:15 am »
It seems that you need to get your facts straight there buddy.
-Erecting a statue of a nationalist ruler doesn't a theocracy make. In fact, there's nothing religious at all about the act itself. For an act to qualify as "theocratic", there needs to be something inherently religious about it.
-Horthy was not a Nazi. Nazism is essentially extreme German nationalism, not "anyone who kills Jews".

I'm trying to say that it is or isn't a good idea to erect the statue, or that Hungary is or isn't a theocracy. Just that if you're going to comment on issues like this, just make sure you have at the very least even the most basic understanding of history and politics.

Offline kefkaownsall

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Re: In case you thought Hungary is not a theocracy
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2012, 01:27:58 am »
It seems that you need to get your facts straight there buddy.
-Erecting a statue of a nationalist ruler doesn't a theocracy make. In fact, there's nothing religious at all about the act itself. For an act to qualify as "theocratic", there needs to be something inherently religious about it.
-Horthy was not a Nazi. Nazism is essentially extreme German nationalism, not "anyone who kills Jews".

I'm trying to say that it is or isn't a good idea to erect the statue, or that Hungary is or isn't a theocracy. Just that if you're going to comment on issues like this, just make sure you have at the very least even the most basic understanding of history and politics.
I'll edit still geez really Hungary not a good idea

Offline largeham

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Re: In case you thought Hungary is not a far right hell hole
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2012, 02:32:02 am »
I always found it weird that Hungary had an admiral as its head of state.

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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: In case you thought Hungary is not a far right hell hole
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2012, 03:29:46 am »
I always found it weird that Hungary had an admiral as its head of state.

Because Hungary was landlocked? Yeah. Horthy initially declared himself Regent. So there was the saying in Hungary at the time "Regent without a monarchy, Admiral without a navy."
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Offline Sylvana

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Re: In case you thought Hungary is not a far right hell hole
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2012, 03:58:36 am »
Oddly I don't find much problem with this.
Remembering ones history is important and at the time of that leaders reign his actions were done in defense of the country, which is significant enough to warrant his statue. There may be other more appropriate figures within Hungary's history but other than that there is really not much wrong with this.

On the other hand though survivors of that period may find the statue of him offensive. In that regard it may be considered extremely bad taste to erect it.

Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: In case you thought Hungary is not a far right hell hole
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2012, 04:17:19 am »
I'm not sure you could say Horthy was acting in defence of his own country. He aligned himself with the Nazis long before they were aiming their artillery at his mansion.
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

The party's name is the Democratic Party. It has been since 1830. Please spell correctly.

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Offline TheL

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Re: In case you thought Hungary is not a far right hell hole
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2012, 07:09:16 am »
Hungary IS a far-right hell hole for very different reasons.

All but 14 "religions" are banned.  Those "religions" are actually denominations of Christianity and Judaism.  Atheism is banned.  Non-Abrahamic religions and Islam are banned.

This happened earlier this year, and I'm surprised it hasn't gotten much attention.
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Offline Fpqxz

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Re: In case you thought Hungary is not a far right hell hole
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2012, 12:14:08 pm »
At least the Hungarian people have resisted going the way of the rest of Europe and having multiculturalism forced upon them.

Given, they are doing it in a rather autocratic way.  But it seems to me that the leaders of the EU think they can turn Europe into the United States.  You can't do that any more than you could turn the U.S. into China.
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Offline ironbite

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Re: In case you thought Hungary is not a far right hell hole
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2012, 04:25:57 pm »
At least the Hungarian people have resisted going the way of the rest of Europe and having multiculturalism forced upon them.

Given, they are doing it in a rather autocratic way.  But it seems to me that the leaders of the EU think they can turn Europe into the United States.  You can't do that any more than you could turn the U.S. into China.

Shut up.

Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: In case you thought Hungary is not a far right hell hole
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2012, 04:48:25 pm »
At least the Hungarian people have resisted going the way of the rest of Europe and having multiculturalism forced upon them.

Given, they are doing it in a rather autocratic way.  But it seems to me that the leaders of the EU think they can turn Europe into the United States.  You can't do that any more than you could turn the U.S. into China.

Wouldn't want to let any darkies in!
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

The party's name is the Democratic Party. It has been since 1830. Please spell correctly.

"The party must go wholly one way or wholly the other. It cannot face in both directions at the same time."
-FDR

Offline Fpqxz

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Re: In case you thought Hungary is not a far right hell hole
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2012, 04:56:51 pm »
At least the Hungarian people have resisted going the way of the rest of Europe and having multiculturalism forced upon them.

Given, they are doing it in a rather autocratic way.  But it seems to me that the leaders of the EU think they can turn Europe into the United States.  You can't do that any more than you could turn the U.S. into China.

Wouldn't want to let any darkies in!

I never said anything of the sort.  It just bothers me that Western European governments decide to change the cultural policy of countries with little or no input from the citizens.  As far as I'm concerned it is colonialism in reverse.

Shut up.

Make me.
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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: In case you thought Hungary is not a far right hell hole
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2012, 05:01:36 pm »
At least the Hungarian people have resisted going the way of the rest of Europe and having multiculturalism forced upon them.

Given, they are doing it in a rather autocratic way.  But it seems to me that the leaders of the EU think they can turn Europe into the United States.  You can't do that any more than you could turn the U.S. into China.

Wouldn't want to let any darkies in!

I never said anything of the sort.  It just bothers me that Western European governments decide to change the cultural policy of countries with little or no input from the citizens.  As far as I'm concerned it is colonialism in reverse.

How are Western governments 'changing cultural policy' and creating 'colonialism in reverse*'. By allowing fair immigration.

* Ye, the two are totally analogous. Tens of millions of white Europeans have been forced into slavery, starved to death or simply gunned down by their new black overlords.
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

The party's name is the Democratic Party. It has been since 1830. Please spell correctly.

"The party must go wholly one way or wholly the other. It cannot face in both directions at the same time."
-FDR

Offline ironbite

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Re: In case you thought Hungary is not a far right hell hole
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2012, 05:07:27 pm »
And now I'm agreeing with Fred.

Ironbite-I don't like to agree with Fred.

Offline Fpqxz

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Re: In case you thought Hungary is not a far right hell hole
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2012, 05:14:49 pm »

How are Western governments 'changing cultural policy' and creating 'colonialism in reverse*'. By allowing fair immigration.

* Ye, the two are totally analogous. Tens of millions of white Europeans have been forced into slavery, starved to death or simply gunned down by their new black overlords.

Multiculturalism is not just about immigration.  Google it.

I refer you to this previous post I made, to which none of you had a response:

I hate to re-insert myself into this discussion, but...

The whole debate about Islamism aside, multiculturalism works better in some places than it does in others.

It has worked mostly OK in places like Canada, the USA, Brazil, India, Singapore, and to a lesser extent Australia and New Zealand.  That's not to say there is no ethnic tension in these places, but what I mean is that people have more-or-less learned to get along.  Moreover, there has to be some degree of assimilation into the broader society, or what you basically have is a form of neo-tribalism.

But you cannot assume that what works in one set of countries will necessarily work everywhere.  Europe is not the United States, regardless of the EU's aspirations.  The histories of the ethnic groups there are much deeper-rooted than most of the ethnic groups on the North American continent (save for the Native Americans, but that is a separate issue entirely).  That's not to suggest that the European countries have no experience dealing with ethnic minority issues, it's just that those experiences are considerably different from our own.

I suspect that all this is why the countries I named above have seen less misbehavior by Muslim immigrants than the European countries have--we do a better job in general of assimilating our immigrants, simply because the European countries aren't predominantly immigrant-based societies (like the USA, Canada, Australia, Brazil, New Zealand) and haven't historically had significant Muslim populations (like India and Singapore).

It is similar to colonialism in the sense that the governments are bending over backwards to accommodate people who have no interest in being European and assimilating into the local culture, and the native population has had no say in this--just as the natives of the Americas, Africa, and the Asian countries had no say in how the European empires took over their nations.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 05:17:51 pm by Fpqxz »
Read some real news:  Allgov.com, JURIST

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Step down Mr. and Mrs. Politically Correct.
It's so easy to be "punk" and "aware" living at home.
You can't change shit, you're too self-righteous;
you're the bigots you flaunt to loathe.
--Thought Industry, Boil