Author Topic: Interesting observation on "Fast and Furious"  (Read 2791 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline armandtanzarian

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 580
  • Gender: Male
  • Sad tropical monkey
    • My band's music
Interesting observation on "Fast and Furious"
« on: June 22, 2012, 09:39:11 am »
(I ask you please keep any discussions of the wars out of this, thanks)

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/21/fast-and-furious-inside-joke.html

The Fast & Furious scandal is probably going to become one of those issues the GOP can actually nail Obama on; everyone agrees its a horrible fiasco. The fallout is now extending to Eric Holder, as it probably should. But David Frum has an interesting theory on why, besides the obvious, conservatives see Fast & Furious as the magic bullet to nail Obama:
Quote
What's driving the intensity in this story, though, is an unspoken theory among some conservatives that the true purpose of Fast & Furious was not a (tragically misconceived) plan to end gun violence in Mexico but a (secret and sinister) plan to tamper with gun rights in the United States.

He quotes from right-wing nutjob site Pajamas Media:
Quote
We know for a fact that Operation Fast and Furious was designed by the Obama administration to put American weapons in the hands of Mexican cartels to kill Mexican citizens, and that the guns recovered in those deaths would be used to call for more gun control.

Hundreds died in a plot that appears to have been designed to impose gun control. It’s past time for the appointment of an independent prosecutor, and to press for criminal charges against those responsible for the carnage that has resulted from the deadliest scandal in U.S. government history.

Online Art Vandelay

  • Greatest Person to Ever Grace this Shitty Forum
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 9559
  • Gender: Male
  • Check Your Privilege
Re: Interesting observation on "Fast and Furious"
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2012, 09:46:54 am »
The Republican's general strategy never ceases to amaze me. Yes, they'd have a valid point and their argument would be far more convincing to mainstream voters if they just stuck to the incompetence angle, but no, they have to instead start pushing a fucking asinine conspiracy theory that will appeal only to the most fucking stupid of voters.

The only explanation I can think of that even remotely makes sense it that the Republicans know they have no chance of winning the 2012 election, and as such their strategists are just taking the piss.

Offline Fpqxz

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 903
  • Gender: Male
  • Generic forum poster #666
Re: Interesting observation on "Fast and Furious"
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2012, 01:32:34 pm »
The Republican's general strategy never ceases to amaze me. Yes, they'd have a valid point and their argument would be far more convincing to mainstream voters if they just stuck to the incompetence angle, but no, they have to instead start pushing a fucking asinine conspiracy theory that will appeal only to the most fucking stupid of voters.

The only explanation I can think of that even remotely makes sense it that the Republicans know they have no chance of winning the 2012 election, and as such their strategists are just taking the piss.

The Republicans and the gun lobby have been using scare tactics about Obama's alleged stance on the right to bear arms to drum up votes and donations.   Now, of course, anyone who has been paying attention knows that Obama hasn't done anything vis-à-vis gun laws, but that doesn't change the effectiveness of the GOP's strategy concerning their base.

I think it's fairly obvious that Fast & Furious (and its predecessor program under the Bush the Younger administration was a huge misstep that ended up costing lives.  But the theory that creating further gun violence in Mexico is somehow a backdoor to creating tighter gun control restrictions domestically is so outlandish that it makes the 9/11 conspiracy theories look almost plausible by comparison.
Read some real news:  Allgov.com, JURIST

Quote
Step down Mr. and Mrs. Politically Correct.
It's so easy to be "punk" and "aware" living at home.
You can't change shit, you're too self-righteous;
you're the bigots you flaunt to loathe.
--Thought Industry, Boil

Offline Lt. Fred

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2994
  • Gender: Male
  • I see what you were trying to do there
Re: Interesting observation on "Fast and Furious"
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2012, 04:43:16 pm »
Wants to make a Condescending Wonka demotivator with: "A Bush administration policy didn't work? Please tell me how that proves Obama to be a commie-fascist."

Edit to add one more thing:

The Republican's general strategy

Which one?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 05:01:54 pm by Lt. Fred »
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

The party's name is the Democratic Party. It has been since 1830. Please spell correctly.

"The party must go wholly one way or wholly the other. It cannot face in both directions at the same time."
-FDR

Offline Nightangel8212

  • The Wicked Witch of the Great White North
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 725
  • Gender: Female
Re: Interesting observation on "Fast and Furious"
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2012, 04:48:30 pm »
What's this?? I've never heard of this fast and furious thing before now... Something about gun control, Mexico and Obama, but I'm kinda lost on exactly what it is...

QueenofHearts

  • Guest
Re: Interesting observation on "Fast and Furious"
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2012, 05:03:06 pm »
What's this?? I've never heard of this fast and furious thing before now... Something about gun control, Mexico and Obama, but I'm kinda lost on exactly what it is...

Long story as short as I can make it, the department of Justice which is headed by Eric Holder (a presidential appointee) was involved in an operation (Fast and Furious) which sold about 2000 or so guns to Mexican drug cartels hoping to determine how the cartels got weapons and trace the cartels' whereabouts. The buyers could have been arrested on the spot, but the DoJ (specifically the ATF) wanted to let the guns drift a bit before making a bust to capture more people. Well, the DoJ kind of lost track of the ball and the guns were used in the killing of a boarder patrol agent.

The DoJ has been denying F&F existed until recently and the Congressional House Committee on Oversight and Reform lead by Darrell Issa, who I will again call an asshole, is pursuing this F&F case as an opportunity to nail Obama for something. So, along party lines I should add, the Oversight committee has been voting to subpoena Holder to testify on F&F before them and to turn of documents of F&F. Recently, again along party lines, Holder was voted by the Oversight Committee to be in contempt of Congress for not turning over something like 1000 documents and Obama invoked Executive privilege so as not to reveal these documents.

Wikipedia has the full details

Offline Saturn500

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1529
  • Gender: Male
    • My Steam Profile
Re: Interesting observation on "Fast and Furious"
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2012, 05:23:11 pm »
You forgot to mention that Executive Privilege can only be used when revealing information would threaten national security.


"I like your Christ, I don't like your Christians, they are not like your Christ." -Gandhi

Offline Lt. Fred

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2994
  • Gender: Male
  • I see what you were trying to do there
Re: Interesting observation on "Fast and Furious"
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2012, 04:53:24 am »
If you'll allow me some sarcasm: "Guns don't kill people, people kill people. There should be no restriction on selling guns to criminals."
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

The party's name is the Democratic Party. It has been since 1830. Please spell correctly.

"The party must go wholly one way or wholly the other. It cannot face in both directions at the same time."
-FDR

Online Art Vandelay

  • Greatest Person to Ever Grace this Shitty Forum
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 9559
  • Gender: Male
  • Check Your Privilege
Re: Interesting observation on "Fast and Furious"
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2012, 04:58:09 am »
Which one?
The general way in which they've been going about trying to convince voters that they're not a completely shit party.

Offline Lt. Fred

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2994
  • Gender: Male
  • I see what you were trying to do there
Re: Interesting observation on "Fast and Furious"
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2012, 06:56:52 am »
Which one?
The general way in which they've been going about trying to convince voters that they're not a completely shit party.

I may have been making fun of your misuse of the apostrophe.
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

The party's name is the Democratic Party. It has been since 1830. Please spell correctly.

"The party must go wholly one way or wholly the other. It cannot face in both directions at the same time."
-FDR

Online Art Vandelay

  • Greatest Person to Ever Grace this Shitty Forum
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 9559
  • Gender: Male
  • Check Your Privilege
Re: Interesting observation on "Fast and Furious"
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2012, 06:58:02 am »
Which one?
The general way in which they've been going about trying to convince voters that they're not a completely shit party.

I may have been making fun of your misuse of the apostrophe.
Well bugger. I didnae notice that.

Offline m52nickerson

  • Polish Viking
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1386
  • Gender: Male
  • Winning by flying omoplata!
Re: Interesting observation on "Fast and Furious"
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2012, 05:23:59 pm »
You forgot to mention that Executive Privilege can only be used when revealing information would threaten national security.

No, it is not limited to that.  In fact it is not very well defined at all.  There has only been a few times the Supreme Court has overruled a claim executive privilege. 
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. ~Macbeth