Author Topic: Man Arrested for Building Code Violation, Claims Persecution  (Read 1746 times)

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Offline Patches

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http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2012/07/07/phoenix-man-sentenced-to-jail-after-hosting-bible-study-in-his-h/

A man in Phoenix is continuing his long-running battle with the city and his neighbors.  Desiring to run a church out of his back yard, he applied for permits, but discovered that building a church meant building to code, including plumbing, electricity, and fire sprinklers, which he couldn't afford, so instead he got a permit to build a shed, and is now using his 1000 square foot "shed" as a church.  Now that the zoning officials are on his ass, he's claiming he's not running a church, it's just a "bible study" gathering that happens to involve 50-70 people 3 times a week.

This article from a few years ago summarizes the history of this conflict:
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2008-01-17/news/michael-salman-wants-to-build-a-church-in-his-backyard-his-neighbors-aren-t-buying-it/

From the sounds of it, the guy doesn't actually have the money to set up this congregation, so is thumbing his nose at city ordinances and continuing to hold his congregation in a firetrap, while whining religious persecution when he's called on it, hoping he can sue the city into providing him the funds for his church.

Quote
Salman seems to realize that if the city shuts those meetings down, it may be the best thing that's happened to his little congregation. He says he's not trying to goad the city into action, but he can't help speculating about what would happen if it did.

"Maybe they'll get so angry that they'll do something stupid," he says. "Like put a cease-and-desist on us holding worship there. Eventually, the city can pay for the church!"

The thought is so appealing he can't help but repeat it.

"The city may have to pay for our church to be built," Michael Salman says. The excitement in his voice is unmistakable.

Offline ironbite

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Re: Man Arrested for Building Code Violation, Claims Persecution
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2012, 10:49:04 am »
Uh....does this idiot not realize the reason there are building codes or is he really this stupid?

Ironbite-this isn't religious persecution you idiot...it's building code violation.

Offline Patches

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Re: Man Arrested for Building Code Violation, Claims Persecution
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2012, 12:19:44 pm »
The people defending him seem to be using the argument "First Amendment rights trump zoning laws".  That basically every (Christian) person has the right to set up a church wherever and however they damn well please, and if the government tries to stop them by citing "zoning laws" or "fire hazards", they're infringing on their freedom of religion and therefore it's the government's job to pay for the church to be erected safely and legally.

So, damn, what a way to get free home renovations.  First make a half-assed, unsafe addition to your house.  When you get cited for it, claim the addition is a church and the government is infringing on your religion by citing you for it.  Sue the government for the money for your renovation, and voila.

(though, reading that second article, this guy is apparently one of those "sovereign citizen" types who claims to be a citizen of Heaven rather than the US, so doesn't have to follow US law when it inconveniences him).

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Re: Man Arrested for Building Code Violation, Claims Persecution
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2012, 01:56:08 pm »
(though, reading that second article, this guy is apparently one of those "sovereign citizen" types who claims to be a citizen of Heaven rather than the US, so doesn't have to follow US law when it inconveniences him).

I would pay good money to be able to tell one of those types "Then practice what you preach; renounce your citizenship and try to stay here on a work visa."

And then to be able to see their reaction to it? Oh yes, that'd be worth it.
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Offline Her3tiK

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Re: Man Arrested for Building Code Violation, Claims Persecution
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2012, 05:31:59 pm »
Uh....does this idiot not realize the reason there are building codes or is he really this stupid?

Ironbite-this isn't religious persecution you idiot...it's building code violation.
Is that a serious question?


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Offline ThunderWulf

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Re: Man Arrested for Building Code Violation, Claims Persecution
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2012, 10:56:29 pm »
*blink, blink*

The city wanting people to be SAFE is not them persecuting your religion fucknut.
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Offline Stormwarden

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Re: Man Arrested for Building Code Violation, Claims Persecution
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2012, 12:29:55 am »
...didn't Kent Hovind try something like this? He tried to fight a code violation for years before a judge finally put an end to it?

Just goes to show that people don't learn from history.


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Offline Her3tiK

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Re: Man Arrested for Building Code Violation, Claims Persecution
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2012, 01:20:07 am »
...didn't Kent Hovind try something like this? He tried to fight a code violation for years before a judge finally put an end to it?

Just goes to show that people don't learn from history.
Given the "history" in that book of theirs, is that really surprising?
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Offline Sylvana

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Re: Man Arrested for Building Code Violation, Claims Persecution
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2012, 02:45:25 am »
I can understand his claim that they cant stop people from gathering and worshiping there, however what they can do is place a limit on the number of people allowed in his shed at any given time. Which they will do as that is the standard routine for buildings that violate the building code. They are not stopping anyone from doing whatever the hell they want in that fire trap of his, just how many of them at a time.

He will see his ass if this goes to court.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Man Arrested for Building Code Violation, Claims Persecution
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2012, 02:53:13 am »
So if the lead sheeting falls in on the parishioners and injures them will he claim te persekution if they take him to court?

Offline Fpqxz

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Re: Man Arrested for Building Code Violation, Claims Persecution
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2012, 04:15:49 am »
So if the lead sheeting falls in on the parishioners and injures them will he claim te persekution if they take him to court?

That's exactly what I was thinking.  God forbid (heh) that there is some sort of fire or accident in that "church" of his, this jackass will be subject to all sorts of civil and probably also criminal liability...made all the more likely, of course, by the fact that he didn't follow the building codes in the first place.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Jesus say something about "render unto Caesar"?  These kind of people always seem to forget about that.
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Offline TenfoldMaquette

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Re: Man Arrested for Building Code Violation, Claims Persecution
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2012, 07:50:18 am »
Quote
Salman seems to realize that if the city shuts those meetings down, it may be the best thing that's happened to his little congregation. He says he's not trying to goad the city into action, but he can't help speculating about what would happen if it did.

"Maybe they'll get so angry that they'll do something stupid," he says. "Like put a cease-and-desist on us holding worship there. Eventually, the city can pay for the church!"

The thought is so appealing he can't help but repeat it.

"The city may have to pay for our church to be built," Michael Salman says. The excitement in his voice is unmistakable.
[/quote]

^Doesn't this bit pretty much invalidate any attempt he might make to sue the city? He's openly and publicly admitting that his intent is to try and force the city to pay for the construction of his private property by waffling on code until they throw the book at him. I'd like to think trying to game the system would backfire on him.

Offline Iczerfour

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Re: Man Arrested for Building Code Violation, Claims Persecution
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2012, 08:42:00 am »
you crying persecution for building code violations? 

Wait your serious? let me laugh harder..

Offline MadCatTLX

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Re: Man Arrested for Building Code Violation, Claims Persecution
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2012, 08:01:12 pm »
Quote
Salman seems to realize that if the city shuts those meetings down, it may be the best thing that's happened to his little congregation. He says he's not trying to goad the city into action, but he can't help speculating about what would happen if it did.

"Maybe they'll get so angry that they'll do something stupid," he says. "Like put a cease-and-desist on us holding worship there. Eventually, the city can pay for the church!"

The thought is so appealing he can't help but repeat it.

"The city may have to pay for our church to be built," Michael Salman says. The excitement in his voice is unmistakable.

^Doesn't this bit pretty much invalidate any attempt he might make to sue the city? He's openly and publicly admitting that his intent is to try and force the city to pay for the construction of his private property by waffling on code until they throw the book at him. I'd like to think trying to game the system would backfire on him.
[/quote]

Sadly I think it's perfectly legal to do that and he can probably have that quote barred from being shown in court as evidence why he should lose the suit.

Is it bad that I would love to see it catch fire?
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