Author Topic: So when does gender matter?  (Read 4765 times)

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Re: So when does gender matter?
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2012, 10:58:52 am »
Join the MRM, they have "men aren't rapist" tourettes.
There was a point in there that you removed for mining's sake.

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However, stupid feminists tend to dislike trans-women because when trans-women express their gender the feminists feel they are re-enforcing gender stereotypes. The gender equality argument is all good and well, and it sounds good to say things like gender roles and stereotypes are meaningless and shouldn't matter, but reality is far more nuanced.

Fix'd for you. Not all feminist are transphobic, and it isn't always due to their feminism. Those feminists probably have a problem with the SAHM and housewives. Don't generalize.
Actually depending on exactly what they base their feminism on it could well be the feminism behind it. If you come from a background where men and women are defined in their places by birth circumstancecs, and women were rather regularly treated as inferiors or abused you may very well find feminism to be a refuge from men. As such it's very much based in biological generalities, and you could be very much disturbed when someone you see as quite clearly being a man starts invading your territory.

I mean hell, second wave feminism spawned isolated towns of nothing but women who simply wanted to escape men and society at large. If you don't think they're going to hold something against transexuals(of either typical type, though for slightly different reasons) over what is likely the core of their feminist beliefs then you've missed something.

More recent feminism it's far less likely. But it'll still be found in some of them, for some of the same reasons. As fluid as gender may or may not be, Sex isn't nearly as much so. If someone bases their feminism on their sex rather than any gender concerns they may well have issues with transpeople.

Offline m52nickerson

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Re: So when does gender matter?
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2012, 11:49:28 pm »
I figured I'd kick a land mine that's been annoying me for a while. I'm a fan of treating people more or less equally. The only real differences being in my opinion of them as a person, and rarely my interest in them on a deeper level.

What I've gathered from a few conversations around here it's assumed that there should be different treatment of people based on their 'gender' "When it matters". Which has left me at a bit of a loss, as  I have little idea of what these times would be. I'm not trying to be obtuse here, I honestly don't see it. But I did grow up around farm girls who could(and did on occasion) beat me into the dirt, so I may very well have simply missed something.

I think a person's gender matters as part of how you are going to deal with that person.  I deal with a lot of different people in my job.  Anywhere from city managers and elected officials to inmates running the prison's water plant.  You can't approach and talk to every person in the same ways and expect the same results.  That does not mean I treat all women different that man.  I don't, but a person's gender is part of equation. 
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Offline Sour Grapes

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Re: So when does gender matter?
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2012, 11:30:21 pm »
There's a lot of societal expectations, especially in the Southern United States, about gender.  Men are supposed to like football, fishing, hunting, dogs, stock car racing, and four-wheeling; for example.  Women are supposed to like some of the same things, but be more genteel and demure about it.  Tradition, and all.  It can be annoying, and confining, but a lot of people, here, accept it.

Offline tygerarmy

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Re: So when does gender matter?
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2012, 12:07:15 am »
I was going to say how is really doesn't matter and all the reasons why and maybe come up with some exceptions.  But instead I'll go with the more extreme/nut point of view time when it matters.

When you're having heterosexual sex.
Because women can get pregnant.  And then men have no control over what happens if she gets pregnant, and they shouldn't.
But having a child changes the lives of both parties.  But in the theme of feminism, if it is a woman's body and a woman's choice, then it is the woman's baby.
Now all guys should raise and be a part of their offspring's life.  But we do not get a say in the final decision to have a child. 
Everyone should be pro a woman's right to choose.  Saying people who don't want children should abstain from sex is ridiculous, sex the love connection and emotions are basic human needs (One of the many reasons prostitution should be legal). There are preventive measures (I have sex with a me wearing a condom and the girl being on birth control) if all of those preventive measured failed, even though I really don't want kids, I wouldn't want the girl to have an abortion, but I'm stuck with her decision.  If the mother didn't want to see me, I'd have to fight for custody.  In the end men and women don't get a say over each other's bodies.  So when we mash them together it matters.
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Offline Old Viking

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Re: So when does gender matter?
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2012, 06:30:02 pm »
Some of humanity's greatest philosophical observations are to found on men's room walls.  Some clearly indicate the importance of parts.  One of my favorites -- from the 1950's -- said, "Piss fast, our crabs swim upstream."

Another male-oriented favorite from the same era said, "Please don't throw cigarette butts into the urinals -- do we piss in your ashtrays?"

To this day I don't know what's on the walls of women's rooms.

Have I  divulged too much about the types of places I hung out in as a young man?
I am an old man, and I've seen many problems, most of which never happened.

Offline rookie

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Re: So when does gender matter?
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2012, 06:31:55 pm »
Another male-oriented favorite from the same era said, "Please don't throw cigarette butts into the urinals -- do we piss in your ashtrays?"

I saw one that said "The people who have to your cigarette butts are the same ones who serve your food."
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Offline Fpqxz

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Re: So when does gender matter?
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2012, 03:53:26 am »
Just piping in here to say that I think the whole gender divide in the hard sciences is more historical/cultural than biological in nature.

That is all.
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Offline Material Defender

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Re: So when does gender matter?
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2012, 10:57:54 am »
I tend not to give law of averages much stock, because some data can be manipulated and there are people outside of the range.

Also, men like shopping (To be stereotypical). Just for things they enjoy. Clothes shopping is my bane because I have no idea what I'm doing, but food can be fun because I can balance stress relief against calorie intake. I'm pretty 100% sure that women enjoy shopping just for things they enjoy. Shopping for things you enjoy is the key factor, not being a dude or a lady. Even in stereotypica.

I believe though that the only meaningful biological difference is that women gain fat more readily (Boobs!) and men gain muscle more readily, and that women can get pregnant. Though the former two might be from hormones related to secondary sexual characteristics, I'd need some education on the details. I've never put much stock on the differences between genders. I'm not sure if it's because of Asberger's or Bisexuality. I usually just wind up in men heavy groups because I can either 'hide' in them if they talk about things I have no interest in, or they tend to line up interest wise... since my interests are more stereotypically male.

At least except when I was with one group. Arguing Jesus was a Socialist was fun. Winning the debate and making the Conservative Right/Christian Right agree with me is more amusing. Having them decide their faith is not as important to their voting as they originally decided was more discouraging because I wanted to win votes, not more theologically sound arguments.
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