Author Topic: Nudism: A serious discussion  (Read 4020 times)

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Offline Joey

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Nudism: A serious discussion
« on: April 07, 2013, 06:32:46 pm »
The practice of keeping nudity taboo in society has its roots in religion, and as far as I know, religion only. So I often wonder, if we are truly a secular society, why is public nudity still considered taboo and why is it still criminalized? If Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, then why do we as a society continue to criminalize something that is only taboo because religions say it is?

Animals of all other kinds don't create elaborate clothing systems to cover up their parts. The young grow up in full nudity and from birth observe the full nudity of their peers, and yet don't develop any psychological problems as a result. They don't even think twice about it.

Now, If you took a kid or adolescent today and suddenly stuck them into a nudist society they would be shocked, and may develop psychological problems as a result. But that is because they were conditioned to believe something - that nudity is evil / sinful / shameful /etc - and then suddenly placed in an environment that ran completely contradictory to their conditioning. It's this confusion that brings about psychological problems, not the nudity itself.  I posit that in a society in which everyone was raised from birth to not be conditioned against nudity, no adverse problems would come as a result.

Sure, there are many pragmatic reasons to wear clothing, such as to protect against the elements, or sport your favorite brand. But these aren't reasons to criminalize the lack of doing so if one chooses.

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 10:47:36 pm by Joey »
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Offline Osama bin Bambi

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Re: Nudism: A serious discussion
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2013, 06:39:19 pm »
I don't really care one way or the other about nudism, but once I was at a fair and saw a bunch of people handing out advertisements for a nudist community. They were all wearing clothes though, because it was fucking raining that day.
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Offline Auggziliary

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Re: Nudism: A serious discussion
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2013, 06:46:39 pm »
To be fair, most animals have fur or feathers or scales. And we don't really know if they feel self conscious or something because of it, since all we get are squaks and barks.

I don't really feel a certain way about it, other than it would be fun to be naked, yet I love wearing clothes cuz fashion is fun for me.

What about people who wear clothes to hide zits or their weight?
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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Nudism: A serious discussion
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2013, 06:51:55 pm »
We invented clothes to protect our squishy, freezable, burnable skin against the elements.

I think it was less a case of religion inventing the need to wear clothes, and more so the idea of after generations of wearing hides to keep one's bits from freezing off, it became weird to see anyone without those hides.

And one aspect of human nature is "Weird is BAD!"

Then it worked its way into religion no doubt.
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Offline Auggziliary

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Re: Nudism: A serious discussion
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2013, 06:52:59 pm »
Also showing off wealth. Like silks and jewelry and such.
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Offline Random Dinosaur

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Re: Nudism: A serious discussion
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2013, 06:53:54 pm »
I'll occasionally go naked at home when it's more comfortable to do so. There's nothing wrong with a naked body.

The real problem is that most people inherently associate nudity with sex. That is, it's normal to be clothed unless there is a specific reason not to be clothed, and the only reasons not to be clothed are bathing, changing clothes, and sex. So if someone is naked and not either bathing or changing clothes, they must be doing something sexual.

I don't think the nudity=sex connection has to be derived from religion, though. Religion probably contributes to the nudity taboo via "Sex is wrong, and nudity=sex, so nudity is wrong"
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 06:55:41 pm by Random Guy »
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Offline Joey

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Re: Nudism: A serious discussion
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2013, 07:00:03 pm »
And one aspect of human nature is "Weird is BAD!"

That's essentially what I was getting at. Is it necessarily a good thing to embrace that mindset?
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Offline Auggziliary

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Re: Nudism: A serious discussion
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2013, 07:00:42 pm »
What Random Guy said. That's another reason why many view women who dress "scantily" as "sluts".
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Offline Joey

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Re: Nudism: A serious discussion
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2013, 07:03:26 pm »
Yeah, but the idea that sex is taboo is also derived from religion. So even if nudity is always associated with sex, in a secular society, that shouldn't necessarily make nudity taboo.
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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Nudism: A serious discussion
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2013, 07:05:38 pm »
And one aspect of human nature is "Weird is BAD!"

That's essentially what I was getting at. Is it necessarily a good thing to embrace that mindset?

Not at all.  While we still have our instincts that tell us one thing or another, instincts aren't always the most reliable way to make decisions.  In fact, more often than not they aren't.

That being said, human nature is the hardest thing to change.  It's easier to change "what is weird" than it is to change "weird is bad".
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Offline Auggziliary

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Re: Nudism: A serious discussion
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2013, 07:10:34 pm »
Yeah, but the idea that sex is taboo is also derived from religion. So even if nudity is always associated with sex, in a secular society, that shouldn't necessarily make nudity taboo.

I don't think it's necessarily from religion. It can come from sexism too.
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Offline JohnE

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Re: Nudism: A serious discussion
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2013, 10:08:55 pm »
The real problem is that most people inherently associate nudity with sex.
Yup. That's basically the problem right there. It's why people associate nudism with things like swinging, exhibitionism, and other sexual lifestyles/fetishes. They get confused and outraged at the thought of families being nude together or children being nude at all, because they can't fathom nudity being non-sexual.

On the other hand, I do find it kind of silly how many nudists are so insistent that there's nothing sexual about nudity at all, not even a little bit, but at the same time, some nudist groups have very strict rules about not even glancing at other people's bits. Seems pretty contradictory to me.

That said, our society is WAY too hung up on nudity, and I'd like to see the laws on indecent exposure relaxed quite a bit. I don't think people ought to be showing up to work nude or anything, but there are times and places where it is (or should be) appropriate.

Tell you the truth, I'm somewhat interested in nudism myself.

Offline Scotsgit

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Re: Nudism: A serious discussion
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2013, 11:55:42 pm »
The early naturist movement contained a lot of religious types, many saw it as getting back to the time of Adam and Eve which they saw as a more innocent and pure time.
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Offline Sylvana

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Re: Nudism: A serious discussion
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2013, 02:49:59 am »
I think we have managed to nail down the reasons behind humans wearing clothing and why we as a society have a knee jerk reaction to nudity.
Even amongst secular people someone being nude will cause a noticeable reaction simply because it is considered extremely unusual. Add to the fact that society has sexualized breasts and genitals and created a thought pattern where any time such body parts are shown is sexualized.

That said, I am grateful for clothing. There are many people I would really not wish to see naked. Seeing them squeeze into clothing that is 2 sizes too small is horrific enough.

Offline mellenORL

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Re: Nudism: A serious discussion
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2013, 02:15:53 pm »
I think we have managed to nail down the reasons behind humans wearing clothing and why we as a society have a knee jerk reaction to nudity.
Even amongst secular people someone being nude will cause a noticeable reaction simply because it is considered extremely unusual. Add to the fact that society has sexualized breasts and genitals and created a thought pattern where any time such body parts are shown is sexualized.

That said, I am grateful for clothing. There are many people I would really not wish to see naked. Seeing them squeeze into clothing that is 2 sizes too small is horrific enough.

So true, but I think if nudity was the norm - weather permitting, obviously- people would be more likely to exercise and care about how much they eat, if they lacked the requirement of clothing to hide under. Also, even those whose medical or physical conditions mean they cannot maintain a normative body type would at least have healthier skin from the exposure to fresh air and sunlight, and I doubt they would be stared at any more than they are now with clothing required by all.

Yeah, the thought of seeing a bunch of "People of Walmart" examples prancing about nude is horrific...but maybe fewer such visions of unloveliness would exist in a nudist world.
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