Author Topic: A Question I Have About Roe vs. Wade....and Progressivism In the USA.  (Read 1812 times)

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Offline Barbarella

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This concerns Roe v. Wade, which gave women in the US the Right to Choose. I know that lately, several states have been stripping women of these rights.

I just have this question, how is Roe v. Wade written? I assumed it was country-wide & written in stone. Is there a clause that permits individual states to decide to adopt it or not?

If Roe v. Wade is universal, why are several states able to break the law & do something treasonous & criminal like pass anti-choice legislation...and not get in trouble for it?

This was something that popped in my head today.

If Roe v. Wade is a universal, written-in-stone, absolute law of the land, perhaps none of this anti-choice legislation is valid or even legal...and therefore moot.

Another thing that hit me. I'm extremely happy that LGBT rights are growing in leaps and bounds in this country but am baffled as to how women's rights are going backwards. We can protest and petition until we're blue in the face concerning women's rights, fighting rape culture, 11 hour filibusters, pro-choice, etc. but still go backwards. I don't understand. On top of that, the guy who brought the "Slut Walk" phenomenon to the US turned out to be a phony who was playing "Mr. Feminist" to get in women's pants. It's disheartening.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/08/12/porn-professor-hugo-schwyzer-comes-clean-about-his-twitter-meltdown-and-life-as-a-fraud.html

I'm glad the Left is winning the culture war but the Right seems to have a stranglehold on the actual Government/Law front. They're finding ways to undermine voting laws & gerrymandering like crazy. I try so hard to be hopeful & optimistic and even chide you guys for being so negative.

I feel a mix of doubt for myself, my country, my worldview, I need to hear of more good news, I need my morale.

Guys, I'm female in the United States of America....and I'm scared. :'(

When will the change come? When will the Left rise again? When will America progress forward? Why can't the people filled with goodness and empathy ever achieve high positions of power & influence? When the bulk of old regressive finally croak, will it be too late?

I'm in one of my funks right now but I'm not going to rage & be crazy or say stupid things.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 05:02:11 pm by SpukiKitty »

Offline Yla

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Re: A Question I Have About Roe vs. Wade.
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2013, 04:59:45 pm »
[Disclaimer: Not an expert about American law]

It is, in fact, binding nationwide. What certain states have been introducing are either laws that do not outlaw abortion und thus would run against that ruling, but hinder access and put additional restrictions on it, or do actually run against it, but they hope that when subsequently challenged in the Supreme Court, the current judges will decide differently und uphold the law, toppling Roe vs. Wade.
That said, I've stopped trying to anticipate what people around here want a while ago, I've found it makes things smoother.
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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: A Question I Have About Roe vs. Wade....and Progressivism In the USA.
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2013, 05:01:11 pm »
One problem is that the kinds of people who need to challenge these laws are generally too poor to do so, and the kinds of people who are rich enough to do so are rich enough to go to a different state to have their abortions.
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Offline Barbarella

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Re: A Question I Have About Roe vs. Wade.
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2013, 05:05:07 pm »
[Disclaimer: Not an expert about American law]

It is, in fact, binding nationwide. What certain states have been introducing are either laws that do not outlaw abortion und thus would run against that ruling, but hinder access and put additional restrictions on it, or do actually run against it, but they hope that when subsequently challenged in the Supreme Court, the current judges will decide differently und uphold the law, toppling Roe vs. Wade.

So that's the strategy.

I re-edited my post with other concerns & statements of my general feeling of malaise, at the moment. Can you guys address each one? Am I being a dope? Is my feeling understandable? You guys (well, those of you from The States) ever get this feeling?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 05:07:44 pm by SpukiKitty »

Offline Radiation

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Re: A Question I Have About Roe vs. Wade....and Progressivism In the USA.
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2013, 06:30:58 pm »
I got this article about the history of Roe v. Wade in more simpler terms and it seems that the ruling was that a woman's write to choose an abortion is protected by the Constitution but also that states could basically determine at what stage in the pregnancy it is allowed, as seen with these last few paragraphs:

Quote
The Supreme Court issued its decision in Roe v. Wade on January 22, 1973 in which the justices ruled 7-2 that abortion was a fundamental right protected by the United States Constitution. Justice Harry Blackmun, writing for the majority, declared that the right of privacy protected by the Fourteenth Amendment and previously outlined in Griswold “is broad enough to encompass a woman’s decision whether or not to terminate her pregnancy.”

While the Court recognized that a woman’s right to choose was protected by the Constitution, it also recognized the competing state interests of protecting a woman’s health and the “potentiality of human life.” The solution the Court settled on was the establishment of a legal balancing test that weighed the privacy interests of the mother against the interests of the state.

The Court based its test on the trimester framework of pregnancy. During the first trimester of pregnancy, when an abortion was considered a safer procedure than childbirth, the Court reasoned that the decision on whether to abort must be left exclusively to the mother. Therefore, any state or federal regulation that interfered with the right to have an abortion would be presumptively unconstitutional. For the second trimester, the Court ruled that the state could regulate abortion only in order to protect the woman’s health. During the last trimester, and after the fetus was considered “viable” (could survive on its own outside the mother’s womb), state laws were permitted to restrict and prohibit abortion except when an abortion would be necessary to preserve the health of the mother.

This trimester framework stood as the national benchmark for abortion laws for two decades following Roe, until a 1992 case out of Pennsylvania presented to a conservative Supreme Court threatened to reverse Roe once and for all.

I'm too tired to think comprehensively, hopefully someone else can better explain and no, you're not the only to feel scared about this kind of stuff.


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Offline Sleepy

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Re: A Question I Have About Roe vs. Wade....and Progressivism In the USA.
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2013, 06:52:11 pm »
I'm glad that at least a couple tough abortion laws have been blocked (like in Arkansas), but the whole thing still frightens me. Frankly, I'm terrified of getting pregnant and being forced to carry the child to term. I don't know what I would do.
Guys, this is getting creepy. Can we talk about cannibalism instead?

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Offline Vypernight

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Re: A Question I Have About Roe vs. Wade....and Progressivism In the USA.
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2013, 06:59:09 pm »
I love how suddenly the Right is all about regulations when it comes to women's bodies but nothing else.  What I wonder is, are any of these regulations viable or are they overkill (like requiring patients in a family doctor's office to be 1000 feet from each other at all times)?
Whenever I hear a politician speaking strongly for or against abortion, all I hear is, "I have no idea how to fix the economy!"

Offline ironbite

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Re: A Question I Have About Roe vs. Wade....and Progressivism In the USA.
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2013, 07:18:03 pm »
They're looking for the magic bullet that'll take out the Werewolf that is Roe Vs. Wade.  Problem is that the SCTOUS rarely, very rarely, goes against itself.  So all these laws once they're challenged, just go away due to Roe vs. Wade.  Nobody has come up with anything that can reverse the decision.  But they'll keep on plugging away till it's gone.

Ironbite-cause...fuck you women.  You dirty sluts.

Offline PosthumanHeresy

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Re: A Question I Have About Roe vs. Wade....and Progressivism In the USA.
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2013, 07:24:38 pm »
I just wanted to talk about the Slutwalk founder guy. He might have been somewhat fraudulent, but he also did do good and he did say he wants to make change. He admitted, his heart was in the wrong place. Doesn't make his actions any less good.
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Offline Barbarella

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Re: A Question I Have About Roe vs. Wade....and Progressivism In the USA.
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2013, 07:25:29 pm »
I'm glad that at least a couple tough abortion laws have been blocked (like in Arkansas), but the whole thing still frightens me. Frankly, I'm terrified of getting pregnant and being forced to carry the child to term. I don't know what I would do.

Well, about Arkansas I'm relieved.

In the fight between Left & Right, it may be close.

I'm in less of a funk now, I don't feel so dready. Maybe I need to stay away from news sites and even FSTDTs for a few days to recoup. No offense to you guys, just a short break. I've found that a few days without news always puts things back in perspective for me.

I have to stay strong & hopeful. 2014 just may be the turning point. I heard that Hillary just might be running. To see her as POTUS would be cool. She's not perfect but she's a strong, intelligent woman & I think she was just as much the brains of Bill's administration as much as Bill was.....and he put this country in the black!


I just wanted to talk about the Slutwalk founder guy. He might have been somewhat fraudulent, but he also did do good and he did say he wants to make change. He admitted, his heart was in the wrong place. Doesn't make his actions any less good.

Well, I like the idea of "Slut Walk" and perhaps he did write some good articles, even if the guy himself is questionable to say the least. Perhaps someone else can take over the "Slut Walk" Movement. It's sad that Feminism has lost a male ally due to him possibly being a fraud who just wanted nookies. There's articles in the wake of this mess that are actually questioning the future of male feminists. Frankly, I think we need all the men we can get! The best way to change the Kyriarchal structure is to get those who'd benefit from the Kyriarchy on the Anti-Kyriarchy side.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 07:34:27 pm by SpukiKitty »

Offline Alehksunos

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Re: A Question I Have About Roe vs. Wade....and Progressivism In the USA.
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2013, 10:47:15 pm »
Here's something that makes me sad about living in the Texas state, where an powerful anti-abortion law was passed and even with the promises of a lawsuit against the state, never happening: There is a Planned Parenthood clinic just a few miles from me (and a few miles from its old location, which was also a target to a tiny demonstration which I swear consisted of only two ladies). Since the law that was enacted plans to close all but 5 clinics in the state, I've been concerned about that particular establishment because it was a beacon that everything, for sure, has gone to Hell. And the building is still there. I hope there are still more buildings left in the Texas state and the Gulf Coast division of Planned Parenthood has resisted against the regressive policies of the Texas GOP (remember, these people are a special kind of evil. The same can be said for the GOP of other red-hot Red States).

Offline PosthumanHeresy

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Re: A Question I Have About Roe vs. Wade....and Progressivism In the USA.
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2013, 11:46:00 pm »
I just wanted to talk about the Slutwalk founder guy. He might have been somewhat fraudulent, but he also did do good and he did say he wants to make change. He admitted, his heart was in the wrong place. Doesn't make his actions any less good.

Well, I like the idea of "Slut Walk" and perhaps he did write some good articles, even if the guy himself is questionable to say the least. Perhaps someone else can take over the "Slut Walk" Movement. It's sad that Feminism has lost a male ally due to him possibly being a fraud who just wanted nookies. There's articles in the wake of this mess that are actually questioning the future of male feminists. Frankly, I think we need all the men we can get! The best way to change the Kyriarchal structure is to get those who'd benefit from the Kyriarchy on the Anti-Kyriarchy side.
Best tip I can give sane feminists is that if any of their fellow feminists turn on male feminists over this, turn on them for being fucktards. Don't let them screw shit up over total paranoia.
What I used to think was me is just a fading memory. I looked him right in the eye and said "Goodbye".
 - Trent Reznor, Down In It

Together as one, against all others.
- Marilyn Manson, Running To The Edge of The World

Humanity does learn from history,
sadly, they're rarely the ones in power.

Quote from: Ben Kuchera
Life is too damned short for the concept of “guilty” pleasures to have any meaning.

Offline Barbarella

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Re: A Question I Have About Roe vs. Wade....and Progressivism In the USA.
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2013, 09:47:33 am »
I just wanted to talk about the Slutwalk founder guy. He might have been somewhat fraudulent, but he also did do good and he did say he wants to make change. He admitted, his heart was in the wrong place. Doesn't make his actions any less good.

Well, I like the idea of "Slut Walk" and perhaps he did write some good articles, even if the guy himself is questionable to say the least. Perhaps someone else can take over the "Slut Walk" Movement. It's sad that Feminism has lost a male ally due to him possibly being a fraud who just wanted nookies. There's articles in the wake of this mess that are actually questioning the future of male feminists. Frankly, I think we need all the men we can get! The best way to change the Kyriarchal structure is to get those who'd benefit from the Kyriarchy on the Anti-Kyriarchy side.
Best tip I can give sane feminists is that if any of their fellow feminists turn on male feminists over this, turn on them for being fucktards. Don't let them screw shit up over total paranoia.

I agree.

Considering the anti-choice laws, I still never got the answer to this question: I'm extremely happy about the great strides in LGBT rights & same-sex marriage but I really can't get how women's rights are going backwards despite tons of protest & an 11 hour filibuster. Why is it that LGBTs, whom the Tealiban hates more than anything, can have progress while women, who make up HALF THE POPULATION and are bound to be looked at with less "bigoted squickiness" cant seem to get ahead? Maybe we need a "Female Pride" flags, parades, etc. to get noticed!

Logically, Women's Rights & LGBT Rights should be progressing strongly in equal pace. What's going on here? Magnus Silveresti's answer makes no sense. Plenty of gays are poor, too!

Well, until the smackdown is put on the pansy Texas boys & their Stepford bimbo bootlickers, all the Texas gals can just move to the cities with the abortion clinics, right? Heck, women can take an overnight trip there.

I think some herbalists can spread the knowledge of proper use of herbal abforacents. As long as they're taken early in the 1st trimester, I can't see how it would be fatal if done properly. Basically you're inducing a very epic period.

This can be an opportunity to spread the Gospel Of The Holy Jimmy Hat! Get the word out on male & female condoms! If these turkeys want to ban birth control & abortions, there are ways around it!

Finally, has it ever occurred to these bozos that a large portion of MALES don't want children, either?

Senator Wendy Davis' heroic 11 hour filibuster will not be in vain! Heck, if she ran for President, I'd definitely vote for her!

A Davis/Clinton ticket would be cool!
« Last Edit: August 15, 2013, 09:59:13 am by SpukiKitty »