Author Topic: #Shirtstorm  (Read 9402 times)

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Offline WatermelonRat

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Re: #Shirtstorm
« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2014, 11:28:41 am »
We must destroy outdated notions like women caring more about fashion than science by focusing on a guy's shirt rather than his scientific contributions.

« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 11:34:22 am by WatermelonRat »

Offline solar.

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Re: #Shirtstorm
« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2014, 02:51:38 pm »
From what I've heard, he wore the shirt because his wife's friend made it, and he wore it to commemorate their friendship. It's okay to be offended, but I think the feminists went too far. They made him cry ffs.
I've been around long enough to know
The value of 24 hours
And free will is the closest thing
We will ever see to superpowers

Oh! That explains everything! Neo-Nazi special snowflake! So they're EXTRA stupid!

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: #Shirtstorm
« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2014, 03:56:54 pm »
@Fred: I never said it was okay to degrade women, I just don't believe an effing shirt contributes toward the degradation of an entire gender, unless it crosses a rather easily visible line.  Basically, a shirt with sexy women on it is no reason for outrage, maybe a comment of "that isn't entirely appropriate," but not the vast amounts of bitching we see from members of the Internet Whinging Machine. 
Cart before the horse, he did initially receive mostly mild rebukes from fellow scientists. The “internet whinging machine” cranked into gear when people got wind of the story and started shouting about “political correctness gone maaaaaadddd…
@Tol: I fail to see how a shirt like that would be in any way intimidating to anyone except the most thin-skinned people on the planet, the same goes for it being offensive. 
Yes, STEM fields need to be more accessible to women, institutionalized sexism in those areas is markedly prevalent to an unsettling degree, but folks are jumping over one dude wearing a tacky shirt.  Where the hell is the outrage when little girls are told by society that they should be homemakers, seamstresses, or bakers, but not physicists, engineers, or programmers?  Where is all this outpouring of anger toward STEM field employers who pass over well-qualified female candidates in favour of a male candidate with inferior qualifications?  Once again, we see people attacking the symptoms, but not the actual disease, because actually dealing with the cancer rotting away the guts of social, scientific, and technological progress is hard, and its much easier to just be angry at a dude in a tacky shirt.
I’ll let Phil Plait answer this one
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So yeah, it’s just a shirt.
And it’s just an ad.
It’s just a saying.
It’s just a TV show.
It’s just the Internet.
Yes, but you almost make as much as a man does.
It’s just a catcall.
It’s a compliment!
It’s just that boys will be boys.
It’s just that she’s a slut.
It’s just that your dress is too short.
It’s just that we want to know what you were wearing at the time, ma’am.
It’s just it’s just it’s just.
It’s just a death by a thousand cuts. No one cut does the deed. In the end, they all do.
 
We must destroy outdated notions like women caring more about fashion than science by focusing on a guy's shirt rather than his scientific contributions.

Those “imbeciles” being:
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cosmologist Katie Mack. Or the planetary scientist Sarah Horst. Or geologist Mika McKinnon. Or astrophysicist Catherine Q. Or planetary geologist Emily Lakdawalla. Or radio astronomer Nicole Gugliucci. Or professor and science communicator extraordinaire Pamela Gay. Or Carolyn Porco, who worked on theVoyager mission and is the leader of the Cassini imaging team, the space probe that’s been orbiting Saturn for over a decade now.
From what I've heard, he wore the shirt because his wife's friend made it, and he wore it to commemorate their friendship. It's okay to be offended, but I think the feminists went too far. They made him cry ffs.
A guy makes a genuine, heartfelt apology and the internet can’t accept it for what it is-rather they draw a narrative where the only way anyone could do that was if they were shown the instruments of torture!

Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: #Shirtstorm
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2014, 04:11:14 pm »
Yes, STEM fields need to be more accessible to women, institutionalized sexism in those areas is markedly prevalent to an unsettling degree, but folks are jumping over one dude wearing a tacky shirt.  Where the hell is the outrage when little girls are told by society that they should be homemakers, seamstresses, or bakers, but not physicists, engineers, or programmers?  Where is all this outpouring of anger toward STEM field employers who pass over well-qualified female candidates in favour of a male candidate with inferior qualifications?  Once again, we see people attacking the symptoms, but not the actual disease, because actually dealing with the cancer rotting away the guts of social, scientific, and technological progress is hard, and its much easier to just be angry at a dude in a tacky shirt.

For those who actually are attacking the real problems, this rant does not apply to you.  You guys are cool, keep doing what you're doing.  For those folks who are out there just to hit soft targets, grow a pair and take on the actual issues.  We need people who can actually fight a war, not just participate in petty border skirmishes.

Literally every person I've seen complain about that shirt has a long history of complaining about every form of sexism in STEM fields. Indeed, they've all pretty much said "the shirt by itself is not the problem, it's that just one more thing in the long list of things that contribute to a hostile environment towards women in science".

I mean, yes, that's anecdotal. I know how internet outrage works, I know there's going to be idiots jumping on the hate bandwagon for pretty much everything. But those idiots are irrelevant. They provide zero information on whether the shirt was or was not out of place. There's a real discussion to be had on where offensive clothing crosses the line, and I can understand reasonable people disagreeing on that, but why bother to address the idiots? Why not talk to the people who actually care about women in STEM and whose criticism of that shirt comes from that angle?
Σא

Offline dpareja

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Re: #Shirtstorm
« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2014, 05:17:56 pm »
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 06:01:38 pm by Ultimate Paragon »

Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: #Shirtstorm
« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2014, 06:17:38 pm »
@Fred: I never said it was okay to degrade women, I just don't believe an effing shirt contributes toward the degradation of an entire gender, unless it crosses a rather easily visible line.  Basically, a shirt with sexy women on it is no reason for outrage, maybe a comment of "that isn't entirely appropriate," but not the vast amounts of bitching we see from members of the Internet Whinging Machine.  If the shirt had pictures of women getting screwed or said "Women are sluts, fuck them on sight," or something equally vulgar, then it'd be cause for outrage.  As it is, some people have decided to jump on something that is a complete non-issue, outside one of personal taste and maybe tact.

Others disagree. I'm sure you accept that your opinion is not the final say.
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

The party's name is the Democratic Party. It has been since 1830. Please spell correctly.

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Offline Second Coming of Madman

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Re: #Shirtstorm
« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2014, 06:26:12 pm »
Wow, Fred. Wow.
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Offline Canadian Mojo

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Re: #Shirtstorm
« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2014, 07:57:24 pm »
I don't suppose STEM enrollment would be helped by helping to dispel the notion that its only for nerds and geeks running around wearing lab coats and pocket protectors.  ;D

Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: #Shirtstorm
« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2014, 08:21:22 pm »
Wow, Fred. Wow.

Well, we can impose our own views on others, or we can take the women who actually currently work in science and say this is a serious problem seriously. Up to you.
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

The party's name is the Democratic Party. It has been since 1830. Please spell correctly.

"The party must go wholly one way or wholly the other. It cannot face in both directions at the same time."
-FDR

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: #Shirtstorm
« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2014, 08:28:28 pm »
I don't suppose STEM enrollment would be helped by helping to dispel the notion that its only for nerds and geeks running around wearing lab coats and pocket protectors.  ;D
Workplace gear is a fashion statement now?

So builders must really dig neon yellow and chefs must just love their black and white checks!

Offline Murdin

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Re: #Shirtstorm
« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2014, 08:53:10 pm »
Removed the part about UP and dpareja's posts, because honestly, I'm done with this drama. As Ironbite said, Taylor decided to apologize. This should have been the end of the discussion.

And now Boris Johnson weighs in:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/11234620/Dr-Matt-Taylors-shirt-made-me-cry-too-with-rage-at-his-abusers.html

Boris Johnson is talking out of his dysenteric ass. This goes even beyond the expected barrage of hyperboles - they are like Stalin, they are like Mao, they are like the Catholic Church, yawn.

The shirt should not have offended anyone because "there are no nipples; there are no buttocks; there is not even an exposed midriff"? And those offended are hypocrites because they hail Kim Kardashian as an example of wholesomeness? His prudishness must be on a trajectory to leave the solar system, after projecting it so fucking hard. I just hope it won't collide with the point that is flying thousands of kilometers above his head.

And of course, there is his hilarious claim that no one dared come to the defense of Dr. Taylor. No one but Johnson himself, apparently. Such a fearless hero of truth and justice he is.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 09:09:41 pm by Murdin »

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Re: #Shirtstorm
« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2014, 08:54:51 pm »
As far as I'm concerned, this is a non issue.  He apologized.  That's it.  This is nothing, a unissue.  Let the man get back to work on the data.

Ironbite-hate this generation.

Offline Second Coming of Madman

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Re: #Shirtstorm
« Reply #43 on: November 18, 2014, 08:57:26 pm »
As far as I'm concerned, this is a non issue.  He apologized.  That's it.  This is nothing, a unissue.  Let the man get back to work on the data.

Ironbite-hate this generation.
*Claps*
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Toddlers get too much exercise, they wouldn't make good veal.

Offline Canadian Mojo

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Re: #Shirtstorm
« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2014, 07:37:44 am »
I don't suppose STEM enrollment would be helped by helping to dispel the notion that its only for nerds and geeks running around wearing lab coats and pocket protectors.  ;D
Workplace gear is a fashion statement now?

So builders must really dig neon yellow and chefs must just love their black and white checks!
Actually, builders wear yellow so they don't get run over by a bulldozer. Chefs on the other hand wear checks because they like it.

But seriously, pay no mind to me, I'm just making smart ass comments about a tempest in a teapot over how groups of people are unflatteringly portrayed and those who are trying to change it.

Personally, I'm of the mind that since this is a project that is over ten years the making, the people involved should be allowed to be wearing all manner of silly clothing and doing keg stands during the interview.