Author Topic: #DeflateGate  (Read 4827 times)

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Offline Sleepy

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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2015, 07:14:59 pm »
Guys, this is getting creepy. Can we talk about cannibalism instead?

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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2015, 12:38:01 am »
Etymology of the term football: A sport, played on foot, that uses a ball.

That's every sport.

OK, not quite, but if we limit ourselves to the "sports involving balls" genre, how many aren't played on foot? Polo?

One would reasonably expect that, if a sport is called "football", the foot does something more than what it does in your average *ball sport. Otherwise, there's no point in specifically putting "foot" in the name.
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Offline Askold

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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2015, 01:28:37 am »
Ice hockey?

Ringette?
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Offline dpareja

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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2015, 08:50:07 am »
Etymology of the term football: A sport, played on foot, that uses a ball.

That's every sport.

OK, not quite, but if we limit ourselves to the "sports involving balls" genre, how many aren't played on foot? Polo?

One would reasonably expect that, if a sport is called "football", the foot does something more than what it does in your average *ball sport. Otherwise, there's no point in specifically putting "foot" in the name.

It's true that playing the ball with the foot is less emphasized in gridiron football now--it's still important for teams to have a good placekicker and a good punter--but that's a product of making the defining feature of gridiron, the forward pass, more important. The shape of the ball was changed in the 1930s partly to make forward passing easier, but at the same time doing so made dropkicks harder (there's a reason why Doug Flutie's dropkicked extra point on January 1, 2006 was the first successful one since December 1941 and is one of his career highlights). Quarterbacks used to be expected to be able to surprise the defence with a quick dropkicked field goal, but the ball now bounces too unreliably for that to be feasible as a strategy. In Canadian football, it's common for the defence to position their placekicker and punter in the end zone on certain kicking plays to collect the ball and kick it out to prevent a rouge should the opposing kicker miss.

Kicking is also important in rugby football, more so union than league--a drop goal made England the first northern hemisphere team to win the Rugby World Cup, in 2003--and in Australian Rules football kicking is required for scoring. Similarly in Gaelic football goals can generally be scored only by kicking.
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2015, 02:29:08 pm »
Oddly enough, when I first read the thread title, I thought it was referring to the compression algorithm...then, I found out it was about something even more stupid.
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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2015, 09:05:04 pm »
Ice hockey?

Ringette?

Played with a puck and a ring, respectively. I did specify "sports involving balls".


Etymology of the term football: A sport, played on foot, that uses a ball.

That's every sport.

OK, not quite, but if we limit ourselves to the "sports involving balls" genre, how many aren't played on foot? Polo?

One would reasonably expect that, if a sport is called "football", the foot does something more than what it does in your average *ball sport. Otherwise, there's no point in specifically putting "foot" in the name.

It's true that playing the ball with the foot is less emphasized in gridiron football now--it's still important for teams to have a good placekicker and a good punter--but that's a product of making the defining feature of gridiron, the forward pass, more important. The shape of the ball was changed in the 1930s partly to make forward passing easier, but at the same time doing so made dropkicks harder (there's a reason why Doug Flutie's dropkicked extra point on January 1, 2006 was the first successful one since December 1941 and is one of his career highlights). Quarterbacks used to be expected to be able to surprise the defence with a quick dropkicked field goal, but the ball now bounces too unreliably for that to be feasible as a strategy. In Canadian football, it's common for the defence to position their placekicker and punter in the end zone on certain kicking plays to collect the ball and kick it out to prevent a rouge should the opposing kicker miss.

Kicking is also important in rugby football, more so union than league--a drop goal made England the first northern hemisphere team to win the Rugby World Cup, in 2003--and in Australian Rules football kicking is required for scoring. Similarly in Gaelic football goals can generally be scored only by kicking.


Interesting, didn't know that.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2015, 12:33:37 pm »
I saw one interesting take on this: by the ideal gas law, assuming the volume and amount of moles remain constant, pressure and temperature are directly proportional. Brady likes the footballs at the lowest allowed pressure, and it is likely that they were inflated to that pressure in a warm room. Therefore, once the footballs were taken outside into colder air, the pressure dropped. (Also, measuring the pressure reduces the pressure.)
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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2015, 03:23:39 pm »
I saw one interesting take on this: by the ideal gas law, assuming the volume and amount of moles remain constant, pressure and temperature are directly proportional. Brady likes the footballs at the lowest allowed pressure, and it is likely that they were inflated to that pressure in a warm room. Therefore, once the footballs were taken outside into colder air, the pressure dropped. (Also, measuring the pressure reduces the pressure.)


If the ball was at the lowest allowable pressure, that's 12.5 psi, and if it dropped 2 psi that's a 16% reduction. If this was a temperature effect, that means a 16% drop in absolute temperature (the stuff you measure in kelvin). Room temperature is about 300K, so a 16% reduction means losing 48°C or 86°F. That's going from human body temperature to colder than freezing.

All this without factoring in the rate at which a ball loses heat, which I'm frankly to lazy to look up.
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Offline Old Viking

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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2015, 05:14:14 pm »
It was a slow news day. 
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Offline MadCatTLX

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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2015, 09:39:59 pm »
The other team wasn't sportsing hard enough.

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Offline Vypernight

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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2015, 04:44:32 am »
So did the Patriots use the 'deflated' ball while their opponents used the actual one?  If not, wouldn't this give both teams the exact same advantage?
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Offline ironbite

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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2015, 05:20:31 pm »
That's the whole point of this.  The Patriots were using deflated balls while the Colts were using regular ones.  It gave the Patriots an unfair advantage due to how crappy the weather was.

Which is what I would've said had the score been closer.  You can nullify 2 touchdowns and it wouldn't have made a difference with the way the Colts were playing.

Ironbite-garbage was insulted.

Offline Vypernight

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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2015, 05:50:42 am »
Oh, I was under the impression that, even if they used multiple footballs throughout the game, both teams used the same ball at the same time.  I mean, if the Colts stole the ball, would the Patriots suddenly call for a time out so they could switch them out?

Granted, I'm no expert on football, but you're right.  This would make more sense if the Colts lost to the Jaguars instead of a team that made the playoffs for reasons besides deflated balls.
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2015, 06:28:18 am »
Sounds better than Saggy Balls Gate  ;)

Offline ironbite

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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2015, 04:16:08 pm »
Oh, I was under the impression that, even if they used multiple footballs throughout the game, both teams used the same ball at the same time.  I mean, if the Colts stole the ball, would the Patriots suddenly call for a time out so they could switch them out?

Granted, I'm no expert on football, but you're right.  This would make more sense if the Colts lost to the Jaguars instead of a team that made the playoffs for reasons besides deflated balls.

That's the thing.  The Colts had a different set of balls to use.  They only found out the deflated balls were even a thing when Brady had a pick.  The guy who snagged it said it felt a little light and here we are.

Ironbite-you really don't understand the sports minded.