Author Topic: "Fascism is rising in America"  (Read 2911 times)

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Offline R. U. Sirius

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"Fascism is rising in America"
« on: February 08, 2015, 06:02:36 pm »
http://www.salon.com/2015/02/08/fascism_is_rising_in_america_the_koch_brothers_and_the_painful_demise_of_democracy_partner/

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As the American Heritage Dictionary noted, fascism is: “A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism.”

Well, it it may well on our doorstep.  And the oligarchs are plotting their final takeover by using their economic dominance to capture governmental power – specifically, the governmental power which sets the rules for the very marketplace that provides the oligarchs with such massive wealth.

Once the American corporate barons own the institutions that are meant to regulate them, it’s game-over for both rational capitalism (including competition) and for democracy.

Last week, at David and Charles Koch’s annual winter meeting near Palm Springs, California, it was announced that the Koch Brothers’ political organization would spend close to $900 million on the 2016 election.  If this goal is met, the group of corporate leaders will spend far more than the Republican Party and its congressional campaign committees spent, combined, in the 2012 campaign.

So, looks like every thinking person's worst fears about "Citizens United" are coming true. Question is, what can we do about it?
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Offline ironbite

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Re: "Fascism is rising in America"
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2015, 06:07:07 pm »
VIVA LA REVOLUTION!

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: "Fascism is rising in America"
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2015, 06:15:08 pm »
I wouldn't get out the torches and pitchforks just yet.  This entire article is little more than sensationalistic yellow journalism.  Is this development worrisome?  Yes.  But it's not like the sky is falling.

Offline Second Coming of Madman

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Re: "Fascism is rising in America"
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2015, 06:53:12 pm »
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No.

Fascists need a charismatic leader, money and a cowed populace that's desperate . While the Cock Brothers provide one element of the trifecta, the Republicans have both constant power struggles and a economy that's doing better than ever.

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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: "Fascism is rising in America"
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2015, 07:04:47 pm »
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No.

Fascists need a charismatic leader, money and a cowed populace that's desperate . While the Cock Brothers provide one element of the trifecta, the Republicans have both constant power struggles and a economy that's doing better than ever.

Besides, the Koch brothers are too elitist to be called "fascist".  Fascism is a populist, grassroots ideology.  They might be willing to back fascists, should it come to that, but they're not fascists.  Fascism is much more specific than a lot of people think.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2015, 07:08:37 pm by Ultimate Paragon »

Offline Second Coming of Madman

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Re: "Fascism is rising in America"
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2015, 07:13:04 pm »
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No.

Fascists need a charismatic leader, money and a cowed populace that's desperate . While the Cock Brothers provide one element of the trifecta, the Republicans have both constant power struggles and a economy that's doing better than ever.

Besides, the Koch brothers are too elitist to be called "fascist".  Fascism is a populist, grassroots ideology.  They might be willing to back fascists, should it come to that, but they're not fascist.

Yeah, that's the thing. Fascism is a "big tent" ideology deriving elements from left and right wing politics, that is impossible to pin down under the binary political spectrum.


« Last Edit: February 08, 2015, 07:14:39 pm by Second Coming of Madman »
@KanzlerImaginos - Feel free to drop me a line.

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Offline I am lizard

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Re: "Fascism is rising in America"
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2015, 08:23:11 pm »
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No.

Fascists need a charismatic leader, money and a cowed populace that's desperate . While the Cock Brothers provide one element of the trifecta, the Republicans have both constant power struggles and a economy that's doing better than ever.

Besides, the Koch brothers are too elitist to be called "fascist".  Fascism is a populist, grassroots ideology.  They might be willing to back fascists, should it come to that, but they're not fascists.  Fascism is much more specific than a lot of people think.
They'd certainly like facism if they got support from the Goverment.

Offline Ironchew

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Re: "Fascism is rising in America"
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2015, 10:43:07 pm »
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No.

Fascists need a charismatic leader, money and a cowed populace that's desperate . While the Cock Brothers provide one element of the trifecta, the Republicans have both constant power struggles and a economy that's doing better than ever.

The metrics we're using to say the economy is doing "better than ever" don't consider the extreme upward wealth redistribution in the United States. It's doing better for the wealthy but everyone else lost out.
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Offline Nemo

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Re: "Fascism is rising in America"
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2015, 11:34:03 pm »
I wouldn't worry too much just yet. 2016 is a presidential election year, which means that more Americans will be out voting. At least a few of the Tea Party candidates can be relied upon to Todd Akin themselves out of the race, and the Kochs will have thrown money away in those cases. Also note that the Senate seats up for grabs will include many that are already occupied by Republicans who won in 2010, when the Tea Party first rose, so I don't see them in much of a position to gain too many even if 2016 is a Republican year.

Personally, if I could be convinced that the party that wins 2016 would lose 2020, I would have every Democrat throw the race. 2020 is what the progressives need to win in order to undo the gerrymandering that has enabled the Tea Party to have any potency at all.
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Offline Ironchew

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Re: "Fascism is rising in America"
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2015, 01:56:40 am »
2020 is what the progressives need to win in order to undo the gerrymandering that has enabled the Tea Party to have any potency at all.

Gerrymandering (or lack of, hopefully) is determined by state legislatures, not the U.S. Congress. Getting progressives to pay attention to state races is even less likely than getting them to vote in midterms.

I'm hoping I get to eat my words in 2020.
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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: "Fascism is rising in America"
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2015, 03:49:52 am »
Fascism is just populist extreme conservatism (Franco!). The Republican party is far from populist.
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Offline niam2023

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Re: "Fascism is rising in America"
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2015, 04:04:18 am »
Indeed, they just want to get rich old and young people's interests met.

If they could sell 99% of humanity's souls to the devil to make the 1% immortal and happy, they'd do it.

And still call themselves "the Christian Party of the Morally Correct."
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: "Fascism is rising in America"
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2015, 08:28:35 pm »
Fascism is just populist extreme conservatism (Franco!). The Republican party is far from populist.

Actually, contrary to popular belief, Franco wasn't a fascist.  He was a far-right authoritarian who enjoyed the support of many traditional institutions, whereas genuine fascists like Mussolini and Hitler held far more revolutionary beliefs and frequently criticized said traditional institutions.

Offline Barbarella

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Re: "Fascism is rising in America"
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2015, 10:34:44 pm »
I wouldn't get out the torches and pitchforks just yet.  This entire article is little more than sensationalistic yellow journalism.  Is this development worrisome?  Yes.  But it's not like the sky is falling.

I'm with you on this.

I look at it, this way....any article that's alarmist should be taken with a grain of salt and are designed to get people feeling nuts.

Now, is there some tiny kernels of truth in it? Sure. You have "Cops Gone Wild", Plutocracy, Teabagger leaders, stupid laws & restrictions on women's sexuality in some states, etc. But it's not a lost cause, yet. Also, a Fascist govt. tends to have the people clamoring for it. We're not at this stage.

I look at it this way, unless someone stood up at a podium in Washington tomorrow and declared explicitly that the U.S. Constitution has been repealed and is no longer the law of the land, I will still consider this a free, open, progressive Democratic Constitutional Republic! All the antics showing otherwise are simply illegal actions that have no validity!!!

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: "Fascism is rising in America"
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2015, 11:41:06 pm »
I wouldn't get out the torches and pitchforks just yet.  This entire article is little more than sensationalistic yellow journalism.  Is this development worrisome?  Yes.  But it's not like the sky is falling.

I'm with you on this.

I look at it, this way....any article that's alarmist should be taken with a grain of salt and are designed to get people feeling nuts.

Now, is there some tiny kernels of truth in it? Sure. You have "Cops Gone Wild", Plutocracy, Teabagger leaders, stupid laws & restrictions on women's sexuality in some states, etc. But it's not a lost cause, yet. Also, a Fascist govt. tends to have the people clamoring for it. We're not at this stage.

I look at it this way, unless someone stood up at a podium in Washington tomorrow and declared explicitly that the U.S. Constitution has been repealed and is no longer the law of the land, I will still consider this a free, open, progressive Democratic Constitutional Republic! All the antics showing otherwise are simply illegal actions that have no validity!!!

That's not how I judge it.  A lot of repressive systems are more subtle than that.  Me, I look somewhere else: Congress.  While a certain amount of decorum is expected, regular heated debates (non-violent ones, that is) are generally a good sign for the health of the country's democratic institutions; if politicians are openly arguing in the halls of the legislative body, it means their opinions differ, and differ publicly, and that the legislature is actually a powerful enough institution to be worth fighting over.  Dictatorships tend to have unnaturally polite and well-mannered "legislative bodies".  If Congress starts acting like the Get-Along Gang, that'll be a big red flag.