Author Topic: French teenager's skirt too long for school  (Read 6799 times)

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Offline dpareja

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French teenager's skirt too long for school
« on: April 30, 2015, 11:40:09 pm »
Yeah, not making this up.



http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/french-teen-s-skirt-deemed-too-long-for-her-to-attend-school-1.3055606

Basically, she was told that her skirt was considered a religious symbol and so she couldn't wear it in school. She already has to (and does) remove her headscarf.

Cue everyone pointing out how dumb this is.
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Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: French teenager's skirt too long for school
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2015, 11:43:12 pm »
And I thought France was dumb for banning burqas...

Offline Dakota Bob

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Re: French teenager's skirt too long for school
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2015, 06:23:53 am »
"Sorry lady, but you skirt isn't slutty enough. It's short skirts or nuthin"

Offline ironbite

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Re: French teenager's skirt too long for school
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2015, 07:54:50 am »
What the fuck France?  Just...what the fuck?

Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: French teenager's skirt too long for school
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2015, 08:30:59 am »
Leave it to France to complain that a student's dress isn't revealing enough.  I know that's not the reason, but come on; the other reason is retarded, this one makes it more amusing.
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Offline guizonde

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Re: French teenager's skirt too long for school
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2015, 02:18:59 pm »
And I thought France was dumb for banning burqas...

actually that's a damn good thing. the only time a priest is seen in his garb is at church, the only time a rabbi dons his habits is in the sinagogue, so why the hell should any religious attire be worn in the street? regarding the skirt, it is stupid, seeing how that's the length of one of my own skirts and i don't want anyone banning my wearing of it. UP, consider it cultural shock if you will, but in france, religious garb of any kind is simply not as tolerated as in the usa.
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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: French teenager's skirt too long for school
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2015, 02:30:01 pm »
And I thought France was dumb for banning burqas...

actually that's a damn good thing. the only time a priest is seen in his garb is at church, the only time a rabbi dons his habits is in the sinagogue, so why the hell should any religious attire be worn in the street?

Actual question, don't you have Jewish guys dressing like this in France?

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Offline dpareja

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Re: French teenager's skirt too long for school
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2015, 02:38:24 pm »
And I thought France was dumb for banning burqas...

actually that's a damn good thing. the only time a priest is seen in his garb is at church, the only time a rabbi dons his habits is in the sinagogue, so why the hell should any religious attire be worn in the street?

Actual question, don't you have Jewish guys dressing like this in France?



That attire isn't specifically tied to any one religion, though. It's identified strongly with various sects of Judaism, but it's not exclusive to those.

They probably still couldn't get away with wearing it in a public school, though.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Mechtaur

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Re: French teenager's skirt too long for school
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2015, 04:18:45 pm »
And I thought France was dumb for banning burqas...

actually that's a damn good thing. the only time a priest is seen in his garb is at church, the only time a rabbi dons his habits is in the synagogue, so why the hell should any religious attire be worn in the street? regarding the skirt, it is stupid, seeing how that's the length of one of my own skirts and i don't want anyone banning my wearing of it. UP, consider it cultural shock if you will, but in france, religious garb of any kind is simply not as tolerated as in the usa.

So, I take it you've never heard of Rabbis wearing a kippah out in public? Or a Tallit?

EDIT: Your argument against religious garb could be pointed at almost any fashion. People wear baseball caps backwards, and many hats have no functional use. Should those be banned as well?

On another note more towards dpareja, there are Sikhs and Hindis here in Wichita that wear head scarves, so it isn't really a specific religious garb as much as it is a cultural thing.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 05:20:57 pm by Mechtaur »

Offline dpareja

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Re: French teenager's skirt too long for school
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2015, 04:25:42 pm »
On another note more towards dpareja, there are Sikhs and Hindis here in Wichita that wear head scarves, so it isn't really a specific religious garb as much as it is a cultural thing.

Interesting. I didn't know that.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline ironbite

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Re: French teenager's skirt too long for school
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2015, 04:38:35 pm »
And I thought France was dumb for banning burqas...

actually that's a damn good thing. the only time a priest is seen in his garb is at church, the only time a rabbi dons his habits is in the sinagogue, so why the hell should any religious attire be worn in the street? regarding the skirt, it is stupid, seeing how that's the length of one of my own skirts and i don't want anyone banning my wearing of it. UP, consider it cultural shock if you will, but in france, religious garb of any kind is simply not as tolerated as in the usa.

Well that's kinda...bigoted of you.  But then again you're French so I can see why you'd be like this.  Because the Hijab isn't for religious services numbnuts.  It's how a Muslim woman proclaims her faith and keep's herself right with Allah like how a Christian woman carries around the cross.  It's an article of clothing that's both serviceable and religious.

As for this, I feel like this is a purely religious thing rather then government issue but I'm not gonna split hairs.  This is the dumbest thing to ban a Muslim girl over and just shows how stupid France is.  Wonder if any other French girl got sent home for wearing a skirt this long or if it's only her.

Ironbite-France certainly tries to minimize any form of religious identity.  Wonder why.

Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: French teenager's skirt too long for school
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2015, 10:12:25 am »
Sooooooo...guizonde, according to your view, nobody should be allowed to wear religious tat in public?  No crosses, no ankh pendants or rings, no pentacles, Mjolnir medallions?  You can't just ban headscarves and then turn around and allow other things and be considered anything other than a bigoted laughingstock.  Hell, even if you banned them all across the board, you'd still be a bigoted laughingstock.  Your country would also likely start hemorrhaging people, and thus money, leading to almost total economic ruin a la Spain.  Religious folks are here to stay.  Trying to marginalize around three quarters of your population (which is a very, VERY conservative estimate) is pretty much the stupidest damned thing you could possibly do.

France is run by morons, plain and simple.
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Offline guizonde

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Re: French teenager's skirt too long for school
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2015, 10:24:22 am »
And I thought France was dumb for banning burqas...

actually that's a damn good thing. the only time a priest is seen in his garb is at church, the only time a rabbi dons his habits is in the sinagogue, so why the hell should any religious attire be worn in the street? regarding the skirt, it is stupid, seeing how that's the length of one of my own skirts and i don't want anyone banning my wearing of it. UP, consider it cultural shock if you will, but in france, religious garb of any kind is simply not as tolerated as in the usa.

Well that's kinda...bigoted of you.  But then again you're French so I can see why you'd be like this.  Because the Hijab isn't for religious services numbnuts.  It's how a Muslim woman proclaims her faith and keep's herself right with Allah like how a Christian woman carries around the cross.  It's an article of clothing that's both serviceable and religious.

As for this, I feel like this is a purely religious thing rather then government issue but I'm not gonna split hairs.  This is the dumbest thing to ban a Muslim girl over and just shows how stupid France is.  Wonder if any other French girl got sent home for wearing a skirt this long or if it's only her.

Ironbite-France certainly tries to minimize any form of religious identity.  Wonder why.

@ravy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_France by all means, read on. it's short, and shows that your 3/4 estimate may be true in the usa, but it's overblown in france. and you are right, if you must wear a pendant or whatever, hide it. i don't understand your argument about haemorraging people, do you refer to fines? i doubt it would lead to economic ruin, however. france is run by morons, but not for this reason. freedom from religion is the major motor of the fifth republic, for reasons that will become self-evident further on in the post.

@sigmaleph: indeed, but it's only tolerated for two reasons. a: it's their work outfit, so it falls in the professionnal category, and b: it obeys the same restrictions as all religious garb otherwise (never in a lay setting).

@dpareja: you're absolutely right.

@ironbite: bigoted maybe, but i stand by what i say. i don't like seeing people wearing crosses, kippas, headscarves, turbans, stars of david, hands of fatma, or any other religious symbol. to correct you on the veil, it was supposedly because one of muhammad's wives wore it as a sign of respect to her husband. it didn't become the de facto symbol of islam until the late 50's, when islam took a turn for the more hardline. for instance, nowhere does it say in the quran that a muslim cannot drink alcohol, only that he must be sober for prayer. nowadays, try and tell a muslim he can have a glass of wine without getting strange looks (i tried because i was friendly and it was 10 pm. got chewed out until he called his imam then he apologized). now, with that out of the way, i'll give you a few reasons why france might be going overboard on religious identity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Bartholomew%27s_Day_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_French_Empire

along with voltaire, the fourth republic, many worldwide conflicts, and of course a major religious resentment dating back from the enlightenment, france is hostile to religion, maybe because it reminds them of the absolutist monarchies of the past (in which the king was head of church and state). any religious conflict is more ammo for france's hatred of worship. each link i've given is any one reason that can be raised by french scholars and politicians for the banning of religion (despite france's priviledged status in the eyes of the catholic church). when christine boutin raised a bible in the national assembly, it caused a massive uproar and she was nearly thrown out. when nicolas sarkozy went to visit the pope in the vatican, his popularity dipped. knee-jerk reactions that remind the french of a less than flattering past.

hope this explains my own anti-religious sentiments a bit better. if you have any questions, ask away. i just don't want a shitstorm, and hope we can agree to disagree if it comes to that.
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: French teenager's skirt too long for school
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2015, 10:38:46 am »
So, basically, what you're sayin is that France is led by people who can't tell the past from the present?  That doesn't exactly inspire confidence.
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Offline guizonde

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Re: French teenager's skirt too long for school
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2015, 10:41:30 am »
So, basically, what you're sayin is that France is led by people who can't tell the past from the present?  That doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

that's a low blow. it's more like they don't wanna redo the errors of the past. besides, it's kind of pot-meets-kettle coming from an american, what with the legendary founding fathers. each country has its cross to bear (pun intended).
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