Author Topic: Because SWATting people you don't like is cool apparently...  (Read 3280 times)

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Offline Askold

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https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/swatting-one-thing-law-abiding-gun-owners-worry/

I get that people don't like open carry. I think those morons who walk around with assault rifles are stupid and the practice doesn't offer any advantages over concealed carry.

Still, if you call the police on someone with a gun you are going to put a lot of people in danger. "Oh there goes some fucker with an assault rifle, I am going to call the police and claim that he was threatening to kill his girlfriend..." Not only the police might overreact, the person with the gun might also overreact when police show up with guns pointed at them. OR they might think the police are after someone else. Or they might simply make the wrong kind of move and the police mistakenly believe they are reaching for their gun or something. When you combine guns and nervous people a lot of things can go wrong. Remember when some troll called the police on that dude doing a livestream of a game? Trolls do this for fun but at least that guy didn't have a gun on him. (And he wasn't black. Imagine if a SWAT team is told that a black guy is walking around with a gun in USA? There have been deaths because someone walked around with a toy gun or a BB gun...)


At least the article is well written:
Quote
The first thing you need to remember is to keep your wits about you. If you and the family are just minding your own business at the mall and you are suddenly surrounded by police pointing guns at you and barking orders, I say follow those orders. Comply immediately. This is no time to become that guy who stands and argues, “I know my rights.” This is also no time to be the guy who starts hollering, “What is going on?” If you are on the business end of a heavy-handed police response, realize that you likely have been SWATTED and know that the person who called police told them you were an immediate threat and they should respond with force. Police arriving to such a call only know what the person on the other end of the line told the 911 operator. The caller could have said something like, “There was this guy threatening to shoot his wife if she didn’t shut up. He’s trying to act calm but he said he was going to kill her. You have to do something right away.”

That puts the police in a tough spot and you in a tougher spot. So, comply with their orders, be polite, and follow instructions. You might be handcuffed. Officers might separate you and your wife for interviews. The cops will very likely take your gun while they are trying to sort things out. If you remain calm you will have a better chance of convincing the police on the scene that you are not a threat.

Once the incident is winding down, it is time for you to start asking questions. Officers might not be able to tell you who called, but you can certainly let them know that you believe someone filed a false report and you want to make a complaint about that. Just remember to keep your cool. It may not be easy, because you have been wronged, but a calm demeanor will allow the situation to come back from the brink much more quickly.
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Offline Sylvana

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Re: Because SWATting people you don't like is cool apparently...
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2015, 04:20:31 am »
I dont even know where to begin with this one.
Yeah SWATING is bad, but being completely gun crazy and walking around with a weapon in public is just asking for trouble.

There are just so many sides to this. The person with the gun might have been having an argument and although he didn't intend to use his weapon, merely having one would be enough to cause others to fear for their lives. Then you get equally crazy anti gun people who would straight up lie to the police to harm someone who has a gun. The police are caught in the middle of this, and with their recent record of police brutality, discrimination and tendency to shoot first without asking questions it becomes lethally problematic.

All I can honestly say, is that at least America has a police force that is sufficiently staffed, equipped and trained that the police can respond to these kinds of call in a timeous manner.

Offline Askold

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Re: Because SWATting people you don't like is cool apparently...
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2015, 05:10:34 am »
Supporting this because some open carriers are dangerous is like saying that false rape reports are ok because there are real rapes as well.

And even though OC is kinda stupid there are plenty of better ways to stop it than by making false reports. Police man hours are wasted. Peoples lives are risked.

AND there there probable are real situations where someone really needs to call the police because of someone carrying a gun, but false reports don't help anyone.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline guizonde

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Re: Because SWATting people you don't like is cool apparently...
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2015, 07:29:35 am »
i get openly carrying an assault rifle on your property (hell, it's your home). but in crowded public spaces? it would make me feel less safe, not more.
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Offline R. U. Sirius

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Re: Because SWATting people you don't like is cool apparently...
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2015, 10:14:29 am »
Open-carry nuts usually imagine themselves as action heroes who can respond to any threat as well or better than police can, when in reality, in the unlikely event they are caught in a dangerous situation, them pulling their gun is only going to make things worse.
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Because SWATting people you don't like is cool apparently...
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2015, 10:18:22 am »
Open-carry nuts usually imagine themselves as action heroes who can respond to any threat as well or better than police can, when in reality, in the unlikely event they are caught in a dangerous situation, them pulling their gun is only going to make things worse.

It depends on the circumstances.  For example, if the bad guy's already started shooting, then there's no reason not to shoot back.

Offline guizonde

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Re: Because SWATting people you don't like is cool apparently...
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2015, 12:13:27 pm »
Open-carry nuts usually imagine themselves as action heroes who can respond to any threat as well or better than police can, when in reality, in the unlikely event they are caught in a dangerous situation, them pulling their gun is only going to make things worse.

It depends on the circumstances.  For example, if the bad guy's already started shooting, then there's no reason not to shoot back.

two words. collateral damage.
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Offline rookie

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Re: Because SWATting people you don't like is cool apparently...
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2015, 12:28:18 pm »
Open-carry nuts usually imagine themselves as action heroes who can respond to any threat as well or better than police can, when in reality, in the unlikely event they are caught in a dangerous situation, them pulling their gun is only going to make things worse.

It depends on the circumstances.  For example, if the bad guy's already started shooting, then there's no reason not to shoot back.

Yeah, about that. First, yes, Guizonde is right. And collateral damage in this case means bystanders. Men,women, and children who just happen to be there.
Also, your cavalier attitude towards taking another life is worrying to me. Truly, it's a hell of a thing to take a life. That sort of thing stays with a person. "No reason not to"is hardly a reason to try to kill a person, even if descending another life.
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Because SWATting people you don't like is cool apparently...
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2015, 12:54:30 pm »
Open-carry nuts usually imagine themselves as action heroes who can respond to any threat as well or better than police can, when in reality, in the unlikely event they are caught in a dangerous situation, them pulling their gun is only going to make things worse.

It depends on the circumstances.  For example, if the bad guy's already started shooting, then there's no reason not to shoot back.

Yeah, about that. First, yes, Guizonde is right. And collateral damage in this case means bystanders. Men,women, and children who just happen to be there.
Also, your cavalier attitude towards taking another life is worrying to me. Truly, it's a hell of a thing to take a life. That sort of thing stays with a person. "No reason not to"is hardly a reason to try to kill a person, even if descending another life.

1.  People's lives are already in danger.  Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather take a chance defending others than let the gunman go unchallenged.

2.  I agree, taking another life shouldn't be easy.  But if I had to choose between killing a deranged gunman and letting innocent people die, it's a no-brainer.

Offline Askold

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Re: Because SWATting people you don't like is cool apparently...
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2015, 03:38:48 pm »
Open-carry nuts usually imagine themselves as action heroes who can respond to any threat as well or better than police can, when in reality, in the unlikely event they are caught in a dangerous situation, them pulling their gun is only going to make things worse.

It depends on the circumstances.  For example, if the bad guy's already started shooting, then there's no reason not to shoot back.

Yeah, about that. First, yes, Guizonde is right. And collateral damage in this case means bystanders. Men,women, and children who just happen to be there.
Also, your cavalier attitude towards taking another life is worrying to me. Truly, it's a hell of a thing to take a life. That sort of thing stays with a person. "No reason not to"is hardly a reason to try to kill a person, even if descending another life.

1.  People's lives are already in danger.  Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather take a chance defending others than let the gunman go unchallenged.

2.  I agree, taking another life shouldn't be easy.  But if I had to choose between killing a deranged gunman and letting innocent people die, it's a no-brainer.

Two more words: Target recognition.

There is going to be a lot of confusion and the armed bystanders might not know which one of them is the original shooter and which are simply people trying to stop him/her. Also, the police get the same problem but at least they usually wear uniforms or have badges out. (Well, apart from USA where they wear camo gear these days. Hopefully the next spree killer doesn't wear camo.)


And this is a real problem and there have been simulations (with paint ball guns) where it is seen that lone gunman can do a lot of damage while the armed bystanders are confused and either shoot each other or, much more likely, stand confused and get shot because they are afraid of shooting innocent people by mistake.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline niam2023

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Re: Because SWATting people you don't like is cool apparently...
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2015, 04:05:53 pm »
You do realize bullets do not disappear when you miss the gunman, right?

Well, this sounds like it could end in Be Careful What You Wish For.

The open carry nuts see themselves as heroes and sovereign citizens, they WANT a confrontation with the government. This could very well let them have it. Their wish never included them surviving the incident.

Personally, I think "good guys with guns" is one of the most asinine things anyone has ever said - there is utterly no such thing as a "good guy with a gun" and a "bad guy with a gun". There's only varying degrees of traits.
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Re: Because SWATting people you don't like is cool apparently...
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2015, 09:53:50 pm »
I dont even know where to begin with this one.
Yeah SWATING is bad, but being completely gun crazy and walking around with a weapon in public is just asking for trouble.

There are just so many sides to this. The person with the gun might have been having an argument and although he didn't intend to use his weapon, merely having one would be enough to cause others to fear for their lives. Then you get equally crazy anti gun people who would straight up lie to the police to harm someone who has a gun. The police are caught in the middle of this, and with their recent record of police brutality, discrimination and tendency to shoot first without asking questions it becomes lethally problematic.

All I can honestly say, is that at least America has a police force that is sufficiently staffed, equipped and trained that the police can respond to these kinds of call in a timeous manner.

The good news is, you don't have to pick a side. You can just say open carry is stupid and SWATing people is stupid!
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Offline rookie

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Re: Because SWATting people you don't like is cool apparently...
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2015, 10:27:30 am »
UP, whether you mean to or not, by your comments what you're telling me is that you are supremely confident in your shooting abilities. That you can identify the shooter, and kill him without getting shot yourself. Or that being a hero is more important to you than getting to safety. Or that being a hero is more important than the possibility of you hitting a bystander. And to say that you'd feel better shooting back because the innocent are already in danger. You realize that you're doubling the chances that someone will get hurt, right? That instead of one idiot's bullets flying around now there are 2 idiots' bullets flying around. You don't really know what you're talking about. That's fine, I'm used to people like that. Gun ownership is a freakishly huge responsibility. One that most take very seriously. And comments like that do us no good at all. So if you want to spout off on topics you don't really understand, can you please pick one that means less in life?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 10:32:13 am by rookie »
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Because SWATting people you don't like is cool apparently...
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2015, 10:38:28 am »
UP, whether you mean to or not, by your comments what you're telling me is that you are supremely confident in your shooting abilities. That you can identify the shooter, and kill him without getting shot yourself. Or that being a hero is more important to you than getting to safety. Or that being a hero is more important than the possibility of you hitting a bystander. And to say that you'd feel better shooting back because the innocent are already in danger. You realize that you're doubling the chances that someone will get hurt, right? That instead of one idiot's bullets flying around now there are 2 idiots' bullets flying around. You don't really know what you're talking about. That's fine, I'm used to people like that. Gun ownership is a freakishly huge responsibility. One that most take very seriously. And comments like that do us no good at all. So if you want to spout off on topics you don't really understand, can you please pick one that means less in life?

Maybe I wasn't clear enough.  I'd say a lot depends on circumstances.  Have I identified the shooter?  Are there people between me and him?  Is he wearing body armor?  These and a number of other factors determine whether I'd shoot back or run away.

Offline guizonde

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Re: Because SWATting people you don't like is cool apparently...
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2015, 11:23:01 am »
i've always been a good shot with rifles, since i was a kid. and on one occasion, last summer i hit a bottlecap with a .22 (the only caliber i'm not scared of nowadays, despite its lethality) at 15m with witnesses. the first time somebody plonked a pistol in my hands, my shots went everywhere near the target, but not close enough. i had an "acceptable" spread on the gun range, but never in my life would i consider it "acceptable" in a real life firing situation.

by no means do i consider myself an expert in guns, but i consider myself sufficiently knowledgeable of their destructive potential. that's good enough for me to say that more guns in a shootout is a bad idea.

please tell me if i'm wrong, rookie, but i've always found that "too much safety is still not enough" when it comes to guns.
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