Author Topic: Women banned from homeless shelter ...because Bible  (Read 3273 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8423
  • Gender: Male
  • Tougher than diamonds, stronger than steel
Re: Women banned from homeless shelter ...because Bible
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2015, 04:13:49 pm »
How is it that people are still hung up about premarital sex in 2015?

I have some theories.

Direct question, UP (well, more of a direct request):

I'm interested in these theories you mentioned. Explain your best one to us.

I think my best one is that it's an extension of the unfortunate human tendency to look down on those they consider inferior.  There are always those considered less deserving than others, whether it be "lazy bums" who don't deserve monetary aid or "bigots" who don't deserve free speech rights.  Really, I'd say that's the root cause, when you get right down to it.

But why are people who have sex before marriage considered inferior? Or are you saying that the issue isn't sex before marriage so much as sex before marriage for the homeless?

Because certain people view those who engage in premarital sex as degenerates.

Offline davedan

  • Lord Cracker
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3039
Re: Women banned from homeless shelter ...because Bible
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2015, 04:16:11 pm »
How is it that people are still hung up about premarital sex in 2015?

I have some theories.

Direct question, UP (well, more of a direct request):

I'm interested in these theories you mentioned. Explain your best one to us.

I think my best one is that it's an extension of the unfortunate human tendency to look down on those they consider inferior.  There are always those considered less deserving than others, whether it be "lazy bums" who don't deserve monetary aid or "bigots" who don't deserve free speech rights.  Really, I'd say that's the root cause, when you get right down to it.

But why are people who have sex before marriage considered inferior? Or are you saying that the issue isn't sex before marriage so much as sex before marriage for the homeless?

Because certain people view those who engage in premarital sex as degenerates.

Is this going to be one of those circular conversations?

That was Art's original question. Why do people still think there is something wrong with premarital sex? Why is it considered degenerate?

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 7993
  • Gender: Male
Re: Women banned from homeless shelter ...because Bible
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2015, 04:25:24 pm »
I hope you guys do realize that UP isn't claiming that premarital sex makes you a degenerate, he is just saying that people apparently still think that.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline davedan

  • Lord Cracker
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3039
Re: Women banned from homeless shelter ...because Bible
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2015, 04:30:28 pm »
Thanks for the mastery of the obvious Askold.

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 7993
  • Gender: Male
Re: Women banned from homeless shelter ...because Bible
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2015, 04:32:39 pm »
Thanks for the mastery of the obvious Askold.
No problem good citizen! Just let me know if you have further trouble with simple matters.

CAPTAIN OBVIOUS AWAYYYYY!!

No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Ultimate Paragon

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8423
  • Gender: Male
  • Tougher than diamonds, stronger than steel
Re: Women banned from homeless shelter ...because Bible
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2015, 04:51:14 pm »
I don't know, but I heard a theory that the taboo came about because of STDs.

Even Then

  • Guest
Re: Women banned from homeless shelter ...because Bible
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2015, 05:03:47 pm »
Or maybe these people think that monogamic marriage is the way God intended, and having sex outside of it is disgusting because it defiles that?

Offline guizonde

  • anglican occitan
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1593
  • capslock is the devil
Re: Women banned from homeless shelter ...because Bible
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2015, 05:05:14 pm »
maybe it's both: christians look down on premarital sex, people look down on the homeless. take a christian, and he'll do both. thus, the root cause is prejudice against those who are different than you.

as for why... well, it's easier to hate irrationnally than to understand. it doesn't challenge you as much.

concerning why people think premarital sex is evil, i'd say blame abrahamic religions for that one. check out pagan, deist, and non-abrahamic religious rituals and you'll find a lot of sex in there. besides bacchus, i know of the vestals, some hindu rituals, amazonian fertility dances, hieros gamos, and even the pharaohs had to whack off into the nile ceremonially to guarantee a bountiful harvest (pharaoh = living god, giving his seed into the life-giving nile). sex is demonized only in western religions since the advent of christianity. before that, jews weren't numerous or powerful enough to have an impact.

also, not talking about roman orgies. there was very little religiosity about those, just massive parties where excess and hedonism were the only goal.
@ guizonde: I think I like the way you think.
Warning: Biohazardously Awesome


0_o 0_0 ¯\(º_o)/¯

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 7993
  • Gender: Male
Re: Women banned from homeless shelter ...because Bible
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2015, 05:07:47 pm »
I assume that the taboo came because of children being born out of wedlock. Go back several centuries and in much of the world if an unmarried woman got pregnant she was much less likely to find a suitor and raising the child and supporting her would be the responsibility of her family (if she didn't simply get disowned.) And with less chances of employment or welfare, raising kids on your own wasn't that easy either.

Nowadays in most countries single mother can actually get jobs and/or raise a child on her own and it is much less of a horrible stain to marry someone (particularly a woman) who already has kids. But I suppose some folks are still old fashioned.

EDIT: Of course contraceptives are also better these days so accidental pregnancies are rarer as well. (with proper/poor sex education being one of the biggest factors in that.)
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Sigmaleph

  • Ungodlike
  • Administrator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3515
    • sigmaleph on tumblr
Re: Women banned from homeless shelter ...because Bible
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2015, 09:53:21 pm »
I don't know, but I heard a theory that the taboo came about because of STDs.
I assume that the taboo came because of children being born out of wedlock. Go back several centuries and in much of the world if an unmarried woman got pregnant she was much less likely to find a suitor and raising the child and supporting her would be the responsibility of her family (if she didn't simply get disowned.) And with less chances of employment or welfare, raising kids on your own wasn't that easy either.

Nowadays in most countries single mother can actually get jobs and/or raise a child on her own and it is much less of a horrible stain to marry someone (particularly a woman) who already has kids. But I suppose some folks are still old fashioned.

EDIT: Of course contraceptives are also better these days so accidental pregnancies are rarer as well. (with proper/poor sex education being one of the biggest factors in that.)

Yup. Premarital sex had much higher costs before condoms and antibiotics, so societies developed taboos against it. Because taboos have a certain inertia, once it came into existence it can continue to exist even when there's no longer a good reason for it.
Σא

Offline guizonde

  • anglican occitan
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1593
  • capslock is the devil
Re: Women banned from homeless shelter ...because Bible
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2015, 10:34:44 pm »
I don't know, but I heard a theory that the taboo came about because of STDs.
I assume that the taboo came because of children being born out of wedlock. Go back several centuries and in much of the world if an unmarried woman got pregnant she was much less likely to find a suitor and raising the child and supporting her would be the responsibility of her family (if she didn't simply get disowned.) And with less chances of employment or welfare, raising kids on your own wasn't that easy either.

Nowadays in most countries single mother can actually get jobs and/or raise a child on her own and it is much less of a horrible stain to marry someone (particularly a woman) who already has kids. But I suppose some folks are still old fashioned.

EDIT: Of course contraceptives are also better these days so accidental pregnancies are rarer as well. (with proper/poor sex education being one of the biggest factors in that.)

Yup. Premarital sex had much higher costs before condoms and antibiotics, so societies developed taboos against it. Because taboos have a certain inertia, once it came into existence it can continue to exist even when there's no longer a good reason for it.

i thought that was what orphanages, rivers, and sandwiches were for. getting rid of unwanted babies, that is.
@ guizonde: I think I like the way you think.
Warning: Biohazardously Awesome


0_o 0_0 ¯\(º_o)/¯

Offline mellenORL

  • Pedal Pushing Puppy Peon
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3876
  • Gender: Female
Re: Women banned from homeless shelter ...because Bible
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2015, 11:14:08 pm »
When ancient people figured out that only one specific man is the father of a baby,  marriage became a ritual. They previously thought women either spontaneously got preggers (the fertility gods/goddesses were the instigators), or that the sex act itself, regardless how many partners, and not sperm specific to a certain man, caused pregnancy. Very primitive tribes today hold the old beliefs, or did until contacted by anthropologists. In the Abrahamic traditions, you see where women are chattel in marriage, subject to death for infidelity, to assure primogeniture and secondary inheritance rights by the actual sons of the husband, regardless how many wives and concubines he had.
Quote from: Ultimate Chatbot That Totally Passes The Turing Test
I sympathize completely. However, to use against us. Let me ask you a troll. On the one who pulled it. But here's the question: where do I think it might as well have stepped out of all people would cling to a layman.

Offline I am lizard

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3545
    • https://www.instagram.com/p/9SIHifrULJ/
Re: Women banned from homeless shelter ...because Bible
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2015, 12:30:11 am »
When ancient people figured out that only one specific man is the father of a baby,  marriage became a ritual. They previously thought women either spontaneously got preggers (the fertility gods/goddesses were the instigators), or that the sex act itself, regardless how many partners, and not sperm specific to a certain man, caused pregnancy. Very primitive tribes today hold the old beliefs, or did until contacted by anthropologists. In the Abrahamic traditions, you see where women are chattel in marriage, subject to death for infidelity, to assure primogeniture and secondary inheritance rights by the actual sons of the husband, regardless how many wives and concubines he had.
Things got simpler after the invention of mandatory child support.

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 7993
  • Gender: Male
Re: Women banned from homeless shelter ...because Bible
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2015, 02:57:21 am »
...And then we have that one culture where people realized that since they can't examine the DNA of the child they cannot actually verify who the father is. Therefore women are allowed to fuck whoever they want and there is no marriage but instead the uncles help raise the kids. That way they can be certain that the child is related to them through as a nephew at least, while a married man whose wife cheated on him might end up raising a child who isn't related to him.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!