Author Topic: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet  (Read 89436 times)

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Offline I am lizard

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #300 on: March 27, 2016, 02:32:53 pm »
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If you can't be friends with people who have different political beliefs, the problem is with you, not your friends.

Offline mellenORL

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #301 on: March 27, 2016, 03:36:09 pm »
Ummmmmm. I agree, actually. Yes, the personal is the political. But if you just cannot see the person beyond their opinions, simply cannot forgive someone for believing stupid and/or just wrong things, you have denied their humanity in a way. One has that right, of course, to reject people for their opinions, but personally I'll keep being fond of my cousin and of my friends who are conservatives. I don't hold their stupidity in some areas against them as human beings.
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Offline Ironchew

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #302 on: March 27, 2016, 04:00:02 pm »
Ummmmmm. I agree, actually. Yes, the personal is the political. But if you just cannot see the person beyond their opinions, simply cannot forgive someone for believing stupid and/or just wrong things, you have denied their humanity in a way. One has that right, of course, to reject people for their opinions, but personally I'll keep being fond of my cousin and of my friends who are conservatives. I don't hold their stupidity in some areas against them as human beings.

Sounds like you have the privilege to be a demographic who isn't threatened with displacement or death by political movements. Many people have to avoid others with political beliefs that involve harming them and others like them.
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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #303 on: March 27, 2016, 04:04:47 pm »
I disagree, mellen. In my opinion, it's perfectly justified to not want to interact with someone over an opinion of theirs if it's particularly harsh. There are some opinions that I can't just 'agree to disagree' with and continue being comfortably friendly despite. In some cases, people's opinions do reflect on them as people and particularly shitty ones alienate others from me on an interpersonal level, and that's fine. It's also not "denying their humanity" in any way. As an example:

Quote from: Person A
I personally believe church tax in Finland should continue to be a policy, as it funds the charity work that the national church performs.

Well, person A who is a hypothetical strawman, while I personally disagree with that political opinion, I can still respect you as a person.

Quote from: Person B
I personally believe all gay people are mentally ill and conversion therapy is A-OK.

...no, person B who despite being a strawman espouses attitudes I have seen real people espouse, I can't respect your opinion or you as a person since you're dehumanizing an already-marginalized subset of humanity (that includes myself and those I care about). And I'm no worse a person for not wanting you in my life or forcing myself to look past this.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2016, 04:15:34 pm by Even Then »

Offline unknown

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #304 on: March 27, 2016, 04:15:11 pm »
Ummmmmm. I agree, actually. Yes, the personal is the political. But if you just cannot see the person beyond their opinions, simply cannot forgive someone for believing stupid and/or just wrong things, you have denied their humanity in a way. One has that right, of course, to reject people for their opinions, but personally I'll keep being fond of my cousin and of my friends who are conservatives. I don't hold their stupidity in some areas against them as human beings.

I think the quote was put here because it ignores marginalized people who cut out family or friends for their own health.  Some people really do need to break ties with people to be happy, especially on issues that directly affect them.  I wouldn't blame a gay person for cutting ties with "well meaning" friends who go "oh, I don't hate you, I just don't think you should have the same rights as me".

That being said, the way some social circles pressure people to cut all ties, especially family ties, at the drop of a hat due to "guilt by association" is kind of gross.

Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #305 on: March 27, 2016, 07:40:23 pm »
I disagree, mellen. In my opinion, it's perfectly justified to not want to interact with someone over an opinion of theirs if it's particularly harsh. There are some opinions that I can't just 'agree to disagree' with and continue being comfortably friendly despite. In some cases, people's opinions do reflect on them as people and particularly shitty ones alienate others from me on an interpersonal level, and that's fine. It's also not "denying their humanity" in any way. As an example:

Quote from: Person A
I personally believe church tax in Finland should continue to be a policy, as it funds the charity work that the national church performs.

Well, person A who is a hypothetical strawman, while I personally disagree with that political opinion, I can still respect you as a person.

Quote from: Person B
I personally believe all gay people are mentally ill and conversion therapy is A-OK.

...no, person B who despite being a strawman espouses attitudes I have seen real people espouse, I can't respect your opinion or you as a person since you're dehumanizing an already-marginalized subset of humanity (that includes myself and those I care about). And I'm no worse a person for not wanting you in my life or forcing myself to look past this.

"Can't be friends with someone with different political beliefs" is distinct from "can't be friends with someone with specific political beliefs".

You can be a generally tolerant person but refuse to be friends with someone who believes you should be killed over your ethnicity/orientation/gender identity/whatever, that's perfectly reasonable. The objection (mine, and I think Mellen's) is to people who refuse to interact with anyone who is not part of the same political movement.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2016, 07:44:48 pm by Sigmaleph »
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Even Then

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #306 on: March 27, 2016, 07:56:42 pm »
Oh, yeah, that's fair enough. I'm just used to people using "different political beliefs" as shorthand for "this person thinks you're broken/sick/inferior (and you need to grow a thicker skin you SJW)", but your reading is the more optimistic and in light of that, mellen's got a point.

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #307 on: March 27, 2016, 09:54:31 pm »
My family moved because my transgendered mother was forced to live like a prisoner in our home by people with "different political beliefs." We no longer live there, and are no longer friends with the residents.

Offline mellenORL

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #308 on: March 27, 2016, 10:59:09 pm »
I'm glad you two made that move. It's especially harmful when family behavior is that toxic and vicious.
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Offline Askold

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #309 on: March 30, 2016, 01:43:22 am »
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Hitler stopped degeneracy in Berlin (Former sin capital of the world)
He burnt pro communist books
He bought the German economy up from the ground whilst the rest of the world was in a great depression.
He built the first highways and gave everyone a car.
He kicked the jews who were destroying German culture into their own state in the middle east
He gave pregnant women welfare and support
He put a focus on Child health
He started the first anti smoking campaign
He ordered his troops to march into the czech republic and execute those massacring Germans
And you think calling Trump Hitler will stop me supporting him?

Either he is lying or simply wrong about: Stopping degeneracy, Jews destroying the culture and the massacres of Germans that allegedly happened in Czech Republic. And the child health thing is debatable as their "racial hygiene" program only cared for the health of certain children. ...And the highways weren't a Nazi plan, they had opposed the idea of building roads up to the moment when Hitler became the councellor at which point they let the plans proceed and took credit for the idea.

But I do agree that the anti-smoking campaign was a good idea.
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Offline Art Vandelay

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #310 on: March 30, 2016, 02:08:57 am »
Even assuming for a second that all of that is true, and therefore you would support Hitler for everything he did for Germany, you have to remember that his genius idea of attacking both the Soviets and the French (and by extension the rest of the western democracies) at the same time led to Germany being split into a Soviet puppet state and an American puppet state for almost 45 years. He did great work burning all of those communist books, then his actions put around 3rd of his country under the communist jackboot. Great work, Adolph. You're truly the saviour of the German people.

Yep, as a hardcore patriot, someone like Hitler is exactly who I want running my country. It'll be a glorious, thousand year reich. No possible way that could go wrong or anything. No siree Bob.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 05:23:44 am by Art Vandelay »

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #311 on: March 30, 2016, 03:03:32 am »
Yep, every nationalists dream to have your country carved up between the Soviets, Americans and the British.

Offline Lady Evil

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #312 on: March 30, 2016, 04:53:32 pm »
Quote
Hitler stopped degeneracy in Berlin (Former sin capital of the world)
He burnt pro communist books
He bought the German economy up from the ground whilst the rest of the world was in a great depression.
He built the first highways and gave everyone a car.
He kicked the jews who were destroying German culture into their own state in the middle east
He gave pregnant women welfare and support
He put a focus on Child health
He started the first anti smoking campaign
He ordered his troops to march into the czech republic and execute those massacring Germans
And you think calling Trump Hitler will stop me supporting him?

Either he is lying or simply wrong about: Stopping degeneracy, Jews destroying the culture and the massacres of Germans that allegedly happened in Czech Republic. And the child health thing is debatable as their "racial hygiene" program only cared for the health of certain children. ...And the highways weren't a Nazi plan, they had opposed the idea of building roads up to the moment when Hitler became the councellor at which point they let the plans proceed and took credit for the idea.

But I do agree that the anti-smoking campaign was a good idea.

And now I have a mental image of Hitler pointing at people like Oprah and saying "You get a car! And you get a car! And you get a car! EVERYBODY GETS A CAR!"

Offline niam2023

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #313 on: March 30, 2016, 04:57:12 pm »
I do admit I love what popular culture has done to Hitler. He's a gigantic joke.
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Offline MaybeNever

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #314 on: March 30, 2016, 11:45:56 pm »
Quote
Hitler stopped degeneracy in Berlin (Former sin capital of the world)
He burnt pro communist books
He bought the German economy up from the ground whilst the rest of the world was in a great depression.
He built the first highways and gave everyone a car.
He kicked the jews who were destroying German culture into their own state in the middle east
He gave pregnant women welfare and support
He put a focus on Child health
He started the first anti smoking campaign
He ordered his troops to march into the czech republic and execute those massacring Germans
And you think calling Trump Hitler will stop me supporting him?

Either he is lying or simply wrong about: Stopping degeneracy, Jews destroying the culture and the massacres of Germans that allegedly happened in Czech Republic. And the child health thing is debatable as their "racial hygiene" program only cared for the health of certain children. ...And the highways weren't a Nazi plan, they had opposed the idea of building roads up to the moment when Hitler became the councellor at which point they let the plans proceed and took credit for the idea.

But I do agree that the anti-smoking campaign was a good idea.

He did awful things to the economy, too. Much of the early economic growth starting in 1934 was thanks to Hjalmar Schacht's careful Keynesian approach and innovative financing strategies, but the man was constantly embattled because he was opposed to the Nazi treatment of Jews and to German rearmament. He clashed with Goering, who held enormous economic power after 1936, eventually leading to Schacht's resignation in 1937. After he left, and Hitler and Goering moved the economy to be entirely subservient to rearmament, the country's severe and growing trade deficit made itself felt with resource and budgetary shortfalls. The country was literally facing economic collapse without extraordinary change. Ironically, the early years of the war may have been easier on the German economy than continued peace would have been. Of course, the end result was far worse.
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