Author Topic: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet  (Read 89350 times)

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Offline mellenORL

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #375 on: April 09, 2016, 10:21:23 am »
Nope. Make him see Australia. It is quite a lot similar in basic ways to America. The people are easy for even a dense Texan to understand and relate to.

The women work less/"missing hours" issue is resolved by this, UP; Maternity Leave IS PAID LEAVE in Oz, like it is in every civilized nation on Earth 'cept 'Murrica. Getting the next generation off to a healthy and well-adjusted start from birth is an actual  Family Value worth paying for. Employers there do not begrudge it.

The senior manager salary difference shown is huge, comparing apples to apples, but the apples with stems on them get a third to half again more than apples without that appendage. This was found to be after conducting an absolutely massive study of nearly half of a modern, English-speaking capitalist democratic nation's workforce over a 10 year period. How the fuck do you argue against it? There's no meaningful cultural difference for this specific point, there is no language barrier to understanding the report or data.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 05:02:07 pm by mellenORL »
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #376 on: April 09, 2016, 11:38:00 am »
Yeah, the lack of paid maternity leave is a serious problem.  But I'm still skeptical that the wage gap actually is what it's often claimed to be.  The BLS has shown that measuring by hourly earnings makes the pay gap considerably smaller.

Offline ironbite

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #377 on: April 09, 2016, 12:21:59 pm »
The reason you're skeptical is because you're an idiot.

Ironbite-but that's ok, we'll keep reminding you of that fact.

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #378 on: April 09, 2016, 12:57:29 pm »
I think you're better off pretending Australia doesn't exist.

That also works as a general statement of reality.

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Offline mellenORL

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #379 on: April 09, 2016, 01:31:56 pm »
Yeah, the lack of paid maternity leave is a serious problem.  But I'm still skeptical that the wage gap actually is what it's often claimed to be.  The BLS has shown that measuring by hourly earnings makes the pay gap considerably smaller.

Have you read through that report? It is broad sided and less apples-to-apples specific like the cited Oz report. But the BLS report still makes the case over and over again, using various criteria and job categories and race and age as well as sex that women consistently earn less for the same work than men. That is not reporting that the problem is "more nuanced" than "we" think it is, that is not reporting that the problem is subtle, that is not an exaggerated finding -over and over again using myriad criteria - and that is not a politicized report. But the BLS is ham fisting your own stupidity back down your own throat.
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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #380 on: April 09, 2016, 01:36:32 pm »
Considerably smaller doesn't mean nonexistent, whichever part of the UP gestalt entity you happen to be.

Offline Canadian Mojo

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #381 on: April 09, 2016, 01:47:22 pm »
Considerably smaller doesn't mean nonexistent, whichever part of the UP gestalt entity you happen to be.

But if it's less than a 35% difference it's not significant enough to worry about... or does that number only apply to bigoted game reviews?

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #382 on: April 09, 2016, 01:56:52 pm »
Considerably smaller doesn't mean nonexistent, whichever part of the UP gestalt entity you happen to be.

I never said it did.

Offline Askold

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #383 on: April 09, 2016, 02:59:09 pm »
I pop in to see what's going on in here... UP stop being an idiot. If you want to know how other countries do stuff ask the people who live there or study. You have too many misconceptions about these things because you don't try to see things from another pov. Which shows up as several other problems.
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Offline Eiki-mun

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #384 on: April 09, 2016, 03:06:12 pm »
I pop in to see what's going on in here... UP stop being an idiot. If you want to know how other countries do stuff ask the people who live there or study. You have too many misconceptions about these things because you don't try to see things from another pov. Which shows up as several other problems.

I would say his primary problem is his inability to accept when he's lost and concede an argument. I see it time and time again lately - he'll get soundly thrashed, concede a point, but then say "but THIS", and sometimes eventually return to his original point that he already lost a week ago. I don't think it's intentional, I think he truly desires not to lose, and he'll do anything not to lose - change topics, search for sources (while barely skimming them and hoping they prove his point), and of course, the infamous "truce".
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #385 on: April 09, 2016, 03:11:37 pm »
I pop in to see what's going on in here... UP stop being an idiot. If you want to know how other countries do stuff ask the people who live there or study. You have too many misconceptions about these things because you don't try to see things from another pov. Which shows up as several other problems.

I wasn't asking about other countries.  Dave was the one who brought up Australia.

Offline mellenORL

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #386 on: April 09, 2016, 05:07:46 pm »
And you were the one who accidentally discharged that BLS shotgun of a report into your own mouth.
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #387 on: April 09, 2016, 06:38:37 pm »
I think you're better off pretending Australia doesn't exist.

That also works as a general statement of reality.

I would ask you to suck my dick, but I'm afraid you'd try to bite it off.
Oh be kind to Mr Top Hat, the chaps at his London club are still reeling after losing that Empire thingy of theirs. Being reminded that one of their colonies rode out the banking crisis while their economy was being kicked in the bollocks is hard on them.

It's like Suez all over again!

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #388 on: April 09, 2016, 07:44:15 pm »
And you were the one who accidentally discharged that BLS shotgun of a report into your own mouth.

Really now.

Quote
Sixty-two percent of women and 56 percent of men employed in wage and salary jobs were paid by the hour in 2013. Women who were paid hourly rates had median hourly earnings of $12.12, which was 87 percent of the median for men paid by the hour ($14.00). (See tables 8 and 11.)

You see that?  87% of the median.  That's a full ten percentage points higher than the "77 cents on the dollar" claim.  That's still a problem, but considerably less of one than what's frequently claimed.

Moreover, it seems like the problem has already gotten a lot better:

Quote
Between 1979 and 2013, women’s-to-men’s earnings ratios rose for most age groups. Among 25- to 34-year-olds, for example, the ratio increased from 68 percent in 1979 to 89 percent in 2013, while the ratio for 45- to 54-year-olds increased from 57 percent to 77 percent.

Hell, it's actually outpaced the growth for men:

Quote
Between 1979 and 2013, inflation-adjusted earnings (also called constant-dollar earnings) rose by 31 percent for White women, compared with an increase of 20 percent for Black women and 15 percent for Hispanic women. In contrast, inflation adjusted earnings for White and Black men declined slightly (1 percent and 2 percent, respectively) from 1979 to 2013, and Hispanic men’s earnings fell by 9 percent.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 07:46:39 pm by Ultimate Paragon »

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #389 on: April 09, 2016, 07:51:29 pm »
Yeah, the lack of paid maternity leave is a serious problem.  But I'm still skeptical that the wage gap actually is what it's often claimed to be.  The BLS has shown that measuring by hourly earnings makes the pay gap considerably smaller.
That's still a problem, but considerably less of one than what's frequently claimed.

What it's often claimed to be...by who exactly?

Set up a straw opponent and then say that the pay gap is "considerably smaller" than what whoever, or whatever "often claimed" it was.