Author Topic: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet  (Read 88867 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline ironbite

  • Overlord of all that is good in Iacon City
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 10287
  • Gender: Male
  • Your True God
Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #750 on: February 13, 2017, 03:45:03 pm »
The Legion is just not very good at what they claim to do.  Oh yes we're a bunch of ruthless killers who've been able to pacify part of the lawless wasteland that used to be the United States but can't seem to figure out that GUNS AND AMMO ARE LITERALLY LAYING AROUND EVERYWHERE!  No let's just use these shitty spears.  That'll get the job done.  I'll give them one thing, they're damn good infiltrators.  They can get just about anywhere without being detected so I'll give them that.  But as an army they're just not very good.

Ironbite-also Anarchy is the only way I go with New Vegas.

Offline Lana Reverse

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 978
  • Gender: Female
Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #751 on: February 13, 2017, 04:19:13 pm »
TBH, I kind of wish we got a more nuanced portrayal of the Legion. When you get right down to it, their only redeeming quality is the fact that killing them's good for XP.
Beware those who hate the rich more than they love the poor.

Offline RavynousHunter

  • Master Thief
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 7785
  • Gender: Male
  • What's All This Tangly Rainbow Shit Mean?
    • My Twitter
Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #752 on: February 13, 2017, 06:19:20 pm »
Plus, their savage garbs are at least good for making money; and their corpses make wonderful set dressing for an alternate ending where they manage to break thru and attack New Vegas, only to get decimated when they try to attack Securitrons with sharp sticks and knives.
Quote from: Bra'tac
Life for the sake of life means nothing.

Online Art Vandelay

  • Greatest Person to Ever Grace this Shitty Forum
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 9623
  • Gender: Male
  • Check Your Privilege
Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #753 on: February 13, 2017, 09:59:42 pm »
TBH, I kind of wish we got a more nuanced portrayal of the Legion. When you get right down to it, their only redeeming quality is the fact that killing them's good for XP.
On that note, I wish there were some playable legion controlled territories. It'd be nice to be able to see for ourselves what Legion rule would actually be like, as opposed to just hearing about it from various NPCs.

Offline RavynousHunter

  • Master Thief
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 7785
  • Gender: Male
  • What's All This Tangly Rainbow Shit Mean?
    • My Twitter
Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #754 on: February 13, 2017, 11:49:02 pm »
@niam: There's likely people who say "Adachi did nothing wrong" and actually mean it, sooooo...
Quote from: Bra'tac
Life for the sake of life means nothing.

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8037
  • Gender: Male
Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #755 on: February 14, 2017, 12:30:10 am »
Someone made a good point that if you need an explanation why a Missionary would suddenly decide to become an evil emperor then it could be because of the tumor in his brain messing with his mind.


Anyway, if the Legion wasn't a bunch of luddites who hate technology (or claim to do so but the game has them use some guns anyway because otherwise they wouldn't be a threat to high level characters) they would be a more credible threat. And as Caesar's plan literally was to civilize them then why the hell didn't he do so right from the start? He spent a lot of time making them hate all civilization and be as cruel as possible (they were killing their slaves by working them hard, this is not sustainable even if you think it was "necessary" for the survival of mankind) and he really had no chance of reversing all he had done just because he found them a city.

Also:
Quote
The legion isn't doomed to fall, the only people who say that are his malignant enemies and those he's already crushed before him in other fights.

If he can sit his Legion in Rome the it'll truly be a nation, if he falls before bringing it into Rome it will die. It's that simple.

A dead slave isn't a worry really, it's the cost of reclaiming the world, letting 1000 slaves die to clear radiological contaminants is a noble job for them to die. It's very sustainable to keep adding the uncivilized into the legion. Slaves breed slaves as you know and female slaves get pregnant. Lets say a man owns 20 slaves, 6 women who are pregnant churn out 6 new slaves every 9 months as well as his own wife having a child every 9 months you have nearly 15 people growth rate in a moderate household ever year and a half.

...I am starting to think that this guy is a troll or simply roleplaying a Legion fanatic. Because none of that makes any sense.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8037
  • Gender: Male
Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #756 on: February 16, 2017, 02:31:05 am »
There's a Trump-fanboy on an FB group I'm in who went mental when McCain said something about how there seems to be discord in the WH and all the fanboy can do is insult McCain and disregard his claims. Repeatedly several people have pointed out that even if you think McCain is "literally Hitler" it doesn't change the fact that his statement was correct.

He got particularly mad at me because I'm a dirty foreigner and demanded that he be allowed to complain about Finnish politics. ...Which he did by making up another non-sequitor and claiming that Finland supports terrorism and genocide in Russia because one (1) Finnish person helped some Chechen refugees into Finland and helped maintain a web page for a Chechen movement (with no ties to terrorism.)

Quote
When will Finland stop supporting Chechen terrorism? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikael_Storsj%C3%B6

Quote
By allowing him to support Chechen child-murderers, your country is complicit in the murder of my co-ethnics in Beslan. It seems that your Finnish freedom of speech needs to be paid for with the blood of Ossetian and Armenian children. So yes, by all means keep interfering with our politics in the US so that we make an issue of your country's " private sector" support for terrorism -- or your words, "some guy who tried to help the Chechens." Sorry, this support is ongoing, and until it stops, your country is providing a law-free context enabling murder. I told you, interference in my country's politics just invites me to bring out your country's dirty laundry, so you will find yourself having to write longer and longer defences of Finland. You challenged me to take issue, so here you go, deal with it.

Other than this he spent the thread crying about fake news and insulting McCain and trying to change the subject...

Quote
And the news is what exactly? That the Russian have spooks and have been trying to establish links with US politicians? Read the WSJ on this to get what the real scandal is ... it is our spooks spying on our own citizens without court authorization.

Because there is nothing wrong with Russia making a spy out of high ranking US government members?

Quote
I do not care. It is McCain saying it, and it does not matter at that level. Given the level of odium and outright evil he represents, I would rather put up with White House dysfunction than do something that is obviously in his interest.

Quote
Look, when it comes to McCain, he is fair game absolutely for all manner of speech acts, full stop. It is called the first amendment. Bringing him in post will invite this sort of attack. If you do not like it, simply do not invoke the s-head, or block me.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8037
  • Gender: Male
Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #757 on: February 16, 2017, 05:32:13 am »
In today's issue of US citizens don't know what the word "democracy" means:
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline dpareja

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 4864
Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #758 on: February 16, 2017, 10:51:48 am »
I was once confused by the whole "democracy"-"republic" thing, but then I read something that cleared it up:

The distinction these people are pointing out is the one that existed in the late 18th century (ie when the US Constitution was written).

Back then, "democracy" meant "direct democracy," where the people vote on laws themselves. "Republic" meant "representative democracy," where the people elect representatives to vote on laws on their behalf. So back then, they were contrasting terms.

Now, of course, they're not, and "republic" contrasts with "monarchy," with "democracy" being on a different scale entirely.

But that doesn't stop people from either ignorantly or disingenuously using the old definitions without being clear about it.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8037
  • Gender: Male
Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #759 on: February 17, 2017, 03:09:30 pm »
Not the net, this is oldschool. Oldschool beliefs as well:
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Murdin

  • Bishop
  • ***
  • Posts: 139
Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #760 on: February 19, 2017, 12:49:05 am »
Not exactly the kind of content that is typically posted in this thread, but I think it's always interesting to see what kind of rhetorical loops people will go through to justify, at least to themselves and each other... well, all those obviously "crazy" reactionary beliefs that typically land here. I'm not supposed to be on these forums anymore, but I stumbled upon that blog by accident while searching for "chemtrails can melt steel beams" jokes, found a few things that tickled my mind, and had no idea where else to post them.

The point is not Trump, but the fact that though the ruling class pushed Western Civilization aside, it did not replace it with any cultural hegemony in the Gramscian-Machiavellian sense. Rather, by pushing P.C. defined as inflicting indignities, the progressives destroyed the legitimacy of any and all authority, foremost their own…
What is to be done with a political system in which no one any longer believes? This is a revolutionary question because America’s ruling class largely destroyed, along with its own credibility, the respect for truth, and the culture of restraint that had made the American people unique stewards of freedom and prosperity. Willful masses alienated from civilization turn all too naturally to revolutions’ natural leaders. Donald Trump only foreshadows the implacable men who, Abraham Lincoln warned, belong to the “family of the lion and the tribe of the eagle.”

In short, the P.C. “changes in law and public norms” (to quote Galston again) that the ruling class imposed on the rest of America, rather than having “gradually brought about changes in private attitudes across partisan and ideological lines” as the ruling class imagined (and as Gramsci would have approved) have set off a revolution—of which we can be sure only that it won’t be pretty.

In short, people should rally behind a strongman to oppose social change and save society from its "progressive elites"... because these elites lost their legitimacy by forcing social change upon the people, which left a power vacuum that could be used by a strongman to take power. Since revolution is supposed to be ugly, any crime or injustice perpetrated by the new regime should be regarded as morally justified by the exceptional circumstances, a necessity to prevent a crumbling society from spiraling into an ugly free-for-all. Or, even shorter still: right-wing authoritarianism is justified because it is unavoidable, and unavoidable because it is justified. Did I get it right?

Still, I have to give that to them. If only my degenerate leftist mind could truly embrace the refinement, nay, the majesty of this statement, if only I could grasp and accept its full implications, all of them, no matter how circular or myopic or hypocritical or contradictory they are... then all of those beliefs that I've previously described as "crazy" would become as natural as two plus two making five:

The ordinary man has always been sane because the ordinary man has always been a mystic. He has permitted the twilight. He has always had one foot in earth and the other in fairyland. He has always left himself free to doubt his gods; but (unlike the agnostic of today) free also to believe in them. He has always cared more for truth than for consistency. If he saw two truths that seemed to contradict each other, he would take the two truths and the contradiction along with them.

Okay, let's drop the sarcasm. I have a particular fascination with the ambiguous and counter-intuitive. Subverted dichotomies, false equivalences, hidden complexities, paradoxical dualities, opposition to tribal thinking, the inherent subjectivity in the study of thought processes, the blending of personal qualities and social descriptors that are supposed to be antithetical... all those things that seem to fly in the face of the our tendency to pursue comprehension through categorization and compartmentalization. As such, being a "mystic" of sorts, not only do I find this statement incredibly insidious in its anti-intellectualism, it feels almost like a personal insult. The gaps and overlaps that can be found between seemingly contradictory notions should be a motive for intense reflection, for a deeper exploration of those twilit areas of conventional thought. Not a lame excuse for intellectual abdication and the unquestioning embrace of the arbitrary. A seeming contradiction is likely to contain more information than the two initial "facts" ; it should be the focus of attention, not just "taken along" as an afterthought.

Incidentally, the blog is basically what you would expect from a typical twenty-something tumblrina, for the most part. Reblogging posts relevant to her fandoms, asking for people to ask her questions then answering to them, the occasional comment about her private life, you name it. The one major difference is that the good intentions, the social awareness, the tinge of genuine compassion that can be found even among the most frothing SJW... those things are completely absent here. In their place are lots and lots of old-timey, religious and fascist right-wing populist ~aesthetics~. So much for letting the selfish, dogmatic and bigoted Baby Boomer generation die off.

Offline Sigmaleph

  • Ungodlike
  • Administrator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3529
    • sigmaleph on tumblr
Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #761 on: February 19, 2017, 08:21:01 pm »
Not exactly the kind of content that is typically posted in this thread, but I think it's always interesting to see what kind of rhetorical loops people will go through to justify, at least to themselves and each other... well, all those obviously "crazy" reactionary beliefs that typically land here. I'm not supposed to be on these forums anymore, but I stumbled upon that blog by accident while searching for "chemtrails can melt steel beams" jokes, found a few things that tickled my mind, and had no idea where else to post them.

The point is not Trump, but the fact that though the ruling class pushed Western Civilization aside, it did not replace it with any cultural hegemony in the Gramscian-Machiavellian sense. Rather, by pushing P.C. defined as inflicting indignities, the progressives destroyed the legitimacy of any and all authority, foremost their own…
What is to be done with a political system in which no one any longer believes? This is a revolutionary question because America’s ruling class largely destroyed, along with its own credibility, the respect for truth, and the culture of restraint that had made the American people unique stewards of freedom and prosperity. Willful masses alienated from civilization turn all too naturally to revolutions’ natural leaders. Donald Trump only foreshadows the implacable men who, Abraham Lincoln warned, belong to the “family of the lion and the tribe of the eagle.”

In short, the P.C. “changes in law and public norms” (to quote Galston again) that the ruling class imposed on the rest of America, rather than having “gradually brought about changes in private attitudes across partisan and ideological lines” as the ruling class imagined (and as Gramsci would have approved) have set off a revolution—of which we can be sure only that it won’t be pretty.

In short, people should rally behind a strongman to oppose social change and save society from its "progressive elites"... because these elites lost their legitimacy by forcing social change upon the people, which left a power vacuum that could be used by a strongman to take power. Since revolution is supposed to be ugly, any crime or injustice perpetrated by the new regime should be regarded as morally justified by the exceptional circumstances, a necessity to prevent a crumbling society from spiraling into an ugly free-for-all. Or, even shorter still: right-wing authoritarianism is justified because it is unavoidable, and unavoidable because it is justified. Did I get it right?

I think you're reading things into it that aren't there?

As far I can tell the quote is about inevitability but not justification. The belief that strongmen will happen but no endorsement of that. Rather the opposite, I think.
Σא

Offline Murdin

  • Bishop
  • ***
  • Posts: 139
Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #762 on: February 20, 2017, 07:30:54 am »
I think you're reading things into it that aren't there?

As far I can tell the quote is about inevitability but not justification. The belief that strongmen will happen but no endorsement of that. Rather the opposite, I think.

Yeah, you're right. Just did a bit more research, and it appears that Codevilla isn't exactly a Trump supporter or apologist. Just a fatalistic, out-of-touch ultra-conservative who thinks the republic was screwed either way, because the masses will turn to authoritarianism rather than accept the elite's affronts to the natural order of things. What misled me was his contribution to the Claremont Institute, which tends towards apology (Flight 93 election), as well as the imagery of an ineluctable popular mass uprising against the elites which ironically reminds me of Marx. Something should also be said about his longing for an imaginary past where America truly lived up to her ideals, which fits right into Trump's MAGA rhetoric.

Regardless, the blogger herself was clearly using this quote as a justification for her political opinions. This was actually my main point: anyone can cherry-pick some intelligent-sounding pieces of rhetoric in support of their beliefs, whichever they are. In the Internet age, you will usually be able to find some decently-written essay to quote as a support ; even if you don't, you can always write and publish your own. For that matter, I'm not certain that the second quote captures the entirety of Chesterton's views on the subject matter. I don't really care, though, since he himself was so eager to trivialize the thoughts of other authors and philosophers.

It doesn't excuse the fact that I did overreach by attributing the Trumpism to the quote itself rather than the context of its use. Sorry. I'm not in the best mental state right now, and it was probably a mistake for me to come back here just to rant about someone being wrong on the Internet.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 07:36:06 am by Murdin »

Offline RavynousHunter

  • Master Thief
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 7785
  • Gender: Male
  • What's All This Tangly Rainbow Shit Mean?
    • My Twitter
Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #763 on: February 20, 2017, 08:54:24 am »
Ey, that shit happens, homie.  Least you didn't pull a Paragon and double down, diggin yourself straight into orbit.
Quote from: Bra'tac
Life for the sake of life means nothing.

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8037
  • Gender: Male
Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #764 on: February 20, 2017, 01:29:06 pm »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VjfKxlO-QA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VjfKxlO-QA</a>

Too many black people!?! White genocide!! Erasure of proud European history!! REEEEEEE!!!!!

...

...Seriously though, I don't really see a reason to cry over this. There were people of non-European descent involved in the war, at this point he (and the many other idiots on the net) are crying because the percentage of non-whites is wrong. ...Which among the lesser historical inaccuracies in the game and this "40% of British soldiers seem to be black" would only be true if the multiplayer classes were claimed to be an exact representation of the ethnicities in the army. Instead it could just be that the game focuses on specific units and people. Also, complaining because this is a game (one of very few) where you "have to" play a black person is just yet another example of how some people only realize how important representation is when they themselves suffer from it. I don't remember people complaining that they couldn't play a black transwoman in Battlefield 3 for example.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!