Author Topic: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet  (Read 81197 times)

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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1260 on: May 15, 2018, 06:02:25 am »


Whats that? They made a comic where Captain America opposes Fascism? This must mean that Marvel hates USA...

He's not complaining about Cap opposing fascism, but about the (supposed, I haven't read the comic) support for Antifa. Let's not build strawmen.
Let's not build BS Lana, he's not merely complaining about antifa, he's saying that because the author has said stuff he disagrees with he hates America, and Captain America to boot.

Offline Svata

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1261 on: May 15, 2018, 08:45:40 am »


Whats that? They made a comic where Captain America opposes Fascism? This must mean that Marvel hates USA...

He's not complaining about Cap opposing fascism, but about the (supposed, I haven't read the comic) support for Antifa. Let's not build strawmen.


To Misquote a certain other version of Captain America. "What do you think the "FA" in "Antifa" stands for? FRANCE?
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1262 on: May 15, 2018, 09:13:26 am »
Because the country code for French domains is .fr, you fools.
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Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1263 on: May 15, 2018, 05:13:59 pm »
And without strawmen can you tell me what is the purpose of Antifa?

And you seem to have skipped all the other stuff that was said, does supporting anti-Fascism mean that you hate "America?" Does it make you racist? And what about the comment about Mr. Coates? Do you think Marvel shot itself in the foot when they hired a black writer for Captain America?

The purpose of Antifa is to oppose what it considers fascism through direct action. However, their definition of fascism is very broad, and their direct action often involves unprovoked acts of violence. It's the latter that I'm more concerned about. Mudslinging may be a common part of the American political sphere, but outright attacks should not be. Antifa are known to used physical violence against not just the alt-right, but anybody they disagree with. I've already spoken about their various acts of violence in Berkeley. They pepper sprayed a woman for wearing a MAGA hat, attacked a Syrian Muslim because they thought he looked like a Nazi, and hit a man over the head with a bike lock while he called for calm, among other things.

Now to answer your questions. Yes, you can be against fascism without hating America. But it's not an all or nothing thing. You can oppose fascism without supporting Antifa. Hell, you can hate both fascism and Antifa. It's the same with racism: opposing fascism doesn't make you racist, but you don't have to like Antifa to be anti-racist. Don't pretend Antifa are the only people opposing fascism. That's a textbook false dichotomy.

Now, let's talk about Coates. I don't think Marvel shot itself in the foot by hiring a black writer. But I do think they shot themselves in the foot by hiring Coates. Why? Because his previous book got cancelled after only two issues due to poor sales, which a lot of people have blamed on its heavy-handed political themes. Given that this book also has heavy-handed political themes, things aren't looking good.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 05:18:31 pm by Lana Reverse »
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1264 on: May 15, 2018, 05:55:15 pm »
Is the Red Skull a Fascist, or is the definition sufficiently narrow as to exclude supervillains?

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1265 on: May 15, 2018, 05:58:27 pm »
Is the Red Skull a Fascist, or is the definition sufficiently narrow as to exclude supervillains?

Oh, he's definitely a fascist.
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Offline davedan

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1266 on: May 15, 2018, 06:18:24 pm »
Is the Red Skull a Fascist, or is the definition sufficiently narrow as to exclude supervillains?

Oh, he's definitely a fascist.

So Captain America has always been antifa - well done para-anal.

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1267 on: May 15, 2018, 06:32:58 pm »
Is the Red Skull a Fascist, or is the definition sufficiently narrow as to exclude supervillains?

Oh, he's definitely a fascist.

So Captain America has always been antifa - well done para-anal.

Against fascism =/= Antifa.
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Offline davedan

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1268 on: May 15, 2018, 06:41:26 pm »
Is the Red Skull a Fascist, or is the definition sufficiently narrow as to exclude supervillains?

Oh, he's definitely a fascist.

So Captain America has always been antifa - well done para-anal.

Against fascism =/= Antifa.

except that is exactly what it equals. It's quite literally what it means. Other than that it is an extremely disparate collective. It's just like saying "not believing in god =/= atheist"

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1269 on: May 15, 2018, 06:59:09 pm »
Is the Red Skull a Fascist, or is the definition sufficiently narrow as to exclude supervillains?

Oh, he's definitely a fascist.

So Captain America has always been antifa - well done para-anal.

Against fascism =/= Antifa.

except that is exactly what it equals. It's quite literally what it means. Other than that it is an extremely disparate collective. It's just like saying "not believing in god =/= atheist"

Do you really think Antifa encompasses everybody who's opposed to fascism?
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Offline davedan

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1270 on: May 15, 2018, 07:42:58 pm »
No but it encompasses everyone who uses direct action, which is what Captain America does (Some Antifa don't condone violence but Captain America has fuckloads of violence):

Quote
The Antifa (English: /ænˈtiːfə/ or /ˈæntiˌfɑː/) movement is a conglomeration of autonomous, self-styled anti-fascist militant groups in the United States. The principal feature of antifa groups is their opposition to fascism through the use of direct action.

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1271 on: May 15, 2018, 11:44:40 pm »
No but it encompasses everyone who uses direct action, which is what Captain America does (Some Antifa don't condone violence but Captain America has fuckloads of violence):

Quote
The Antifa (English: /ænˈtiːfə/ or /ˈæntiˌfɑː/) movement is a conglomeration of autonomous, self-styled anti-fascist militant groups in the United States. The principal feature of antifa groups is their opposition to fascism through the use of direct action.

I think you're trying to cram a square peg into a round hole. AFAIK, Cap's never been a member of a vigilante group whose primary purpose was direct action against fascism. I don't think he ever joined a group that had "anti-fascist" or a variation in its name.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 12:15:51 am by Lana Reverse »
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Offline Askold

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1272 on: May 16, 2018, 03:43:15 am »
No but it encompasses everyone who uses direct action, which is what Captain America does (Some Antifa don't condone violence but Captain America has fuckloads of violence):

Quote
The Antifa (English: /ænˈtiːfə/ or /ˈæntiˌfɑː/) movement is a conglomeration of autonomous, self-styled anti-fascist militant groups in the United States. The principal feature of antifa groups is their opposition to fascism through the use of direct action.

I think you're trying to cram a square peg into a round hole. AFAIK, Cap's never been a member of a vigilante group whose primary purpose was direct action against fascism. I don't think he ever joined a group that had "anti-fascist" or a variation in its name.

Ahem... Captain America has literally been the leader of a vigilantee group that was specifically created for direct action against Fascism.

They called it "The Avengers" and they fought against a warlord who were imprisoning people without a trial based purely on profiling. (Civil war, Cap was running the rogue Avengers team against Stark and SHIELD who went full Fascist to imprison all mutants and other superheroes.)
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1273 on: May 16, 2018, 08:48:53 am »
Cap's never been a member of a vigilante group whose primary purpose was direct action against fascism.
By virtue of being a superhero he's a vigilante.

By virtue of scuffling with the Red Skull he's taken direct action against fascism.

Offline ironbite

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1274 on: May 16, 2018, 10:23:56 am »
Lana are you that dumb or do you not read comics?