Author Topic: The lead-up to the 2018 midterms begins  (Read 6264 times)

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Offline ironbite

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Re: The lead-up to the 2018 midterms begins
« Reply #195 on: November 12, 2018, 10:17:56 pm »
Then I guess we should all give up hope, anyone who voted Democrat should just slit their throats, and leave this planet to a bunch of moronic mouth breathers who don't understand the catastrophic climate change that'll kill off a huge percentage of the population and change geopolitical boundaries for centuries and be done with it.

Ironbite-shut, the fuck, up.

Online dpareja

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Re: The lead-up to the 2018 midterms begins
« Reply #196 on: November 12, 2018, 10:24:08 pm »
Then I guess we should all give up hope, anyone who voted Democrat should just slit their throats, and leave this planet to a bunch of moronic mouth breathers who don't understand the catastrophic climate change that'll kill off a huge percentage of the population and change geopolitical boundaries for centuries and be done with it.

Ironbite-shut, the fuck, up.

Where did I say to give up hope? I'm pointing out the reality of the situation. I think there's quite a few seats that can be flipped.
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Online niam2023

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Re: The lead-up to the 2018 midterms begins
« Reply #197 on: November 13, 2018, 02:35:06 am »
@ ironbite: It's Dpareja dude. He'd react to winning the Senate and the House with "BUT MONEY IN POLITICS! THE PLATFORMS WERE NOT ENUF POPULIST!"
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Online dpareja

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Re: The lead-up to the 2018 midterms begins
« Reply #198 on: November 13, 2018, 02:39:31 am »
@ ironbite: It's Dpareja dude. He'd react to winning the Senate and the House with "BUT MONEY IN POLITICS! THE PLATFORMS WERE NOT ENUF POPULIST!"

OK, you clearly misunderstand my position.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline ironbite

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Re: The lead-up to the 2018 midterms begins
« Reply #199 on: November 13, 2018, 09:42:06 am »
Oh no we completely understand your position.  Its a position I'm tired of seeing.

Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: The lead-up to the 2018 midterms begins
« Reply #200 on: November 13, 2018, 10:08:24 am »
I think I get where dpareja is comin from.  Basically, good on 'em that they won, but remember that these are politicians and that they are career liars.

In the words of Mad-Eye Moody: CONSTANT VIGILANCE!
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Online dpareja

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Re: The lead-up to the 2018 midterms begins
« Reply #201 on: November 13, 2018, 10:09:45 am »
Oh no we completely understand your position.  Its a position I'm tired of seeing.

OK, then, if you're so sure you know what my position is, what is it?
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline ironbite

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Re: The lead-up to the 2018 midterms begins
« Reply #202 on: November 13, 2018, 10:26:42 am »

Online niam2023

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Re: The lead-up to the 2018 midterms begins
« Reply #203 on: November 13, 2018, 04:07:48 pm »
ANY time there is a win in any stretch of the imagination, you come in, Dpareja, and start spouting off on how Democrats are skilled at losing, how even if they win they're not true progressives, how the REAL SUCCESS was by REAL PROGRESSIVE, while the Corrupt Business As Usual Democrats LOST LOST LOST LOST!

Because anything else would be admitting Mr. "I don't think having racist thoughts makes you racist" has problems or isn't the end all and be all.

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Offline Askold

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Re: The lead-up to the 2018 midterms begins
« Reply #204 on: November 13, 2018, 04:10:03 pm »
...While Republicans are loudly complaining about how Democrats most certainly commit voter fraud by bringing in millions of illegal immigrants, they themselves are a bit less concerned about technicalities when Republicans need to vote: https://theweek.com/speedreads/807424/heavily-republican-florida-county-allowed-some-residents-vote-by-email-apparently-illegally
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Online dpareja

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Re: The lead-up to the 2018 midterms begins
« Reply #205 on: November 13, 2018, 06:06:57 pm »
ANY time there is a win in any stretch of the imagination, you come in, Dpareja, and start spouting off on how Democrats are skilled at losing, how even if they win they're not true progressives, how the REAL SUCCESS was by REAL PROGRESSIVE, while the Corrupt Business As Usual Democrats LOST LOST LOST LOST!

Because anything else would be admitting Mr. "I don't think having racist thoughts makes you racist" has problems or isn't the end all and be all.

OK, let me explain my position:

There are two aspects to winning: a) what gives you the best chance of winning and b) what do you do once you've won.

I should preface this by saying that a win is a win.

Now, on a), what I have observed is that, as a general rule--of course there are exceptions--Democratic candidates who run on more progressive platforms tend to do better than Democratic candidates who run on more conservative platforms. This is not, of course, to say that the former will win and the latter will not. One need only consider Beto O'Rourke and Joe Manchin respectively. But when I consider various high-profile Senate races, I see that, generally, the progressive candidates, like Brown and Baldwin, won comfortably, while the conservative candidates won by a lower margin, or outright lost. (Again, O'Rourke didn't win, but he made a race competitive that nobody anticipated would be competitive. Manchin won, but by a small margin--far smaller than his 2012 margin. And Tester won, by about a point less than in 2012, and he's not a progressive, but he is anti-corruption.)

Furthermore, when I consider the various ballot initiatives, what I see is that on the policies themselves, American voters tend to agree (again, this is not a hard-and-fast rule, especially in particular states like Alabama) with the progressive position, even when they vote for the Republican candidate. Consider Ballotpedia's list:

https://ballotpedia.org/2018_ballot_measures

(click to show/hide)

My submission is manifestly not that wins only count when it's progressives winning, or that when it's an overwhelming win. Wins are wins--but so too losses are losses. My submission is that given the stated policy positions of the people, determined from polling and ballot initiatives, Democratic candidates running on progressive platforms have, in general, a better chance of winning than Democratic candidates running on conservative platforms.

On b), the question is what is done upon gaining power. And what we see is that the last time Democrats had full control of Congress and the Presidency, they passed what was the Republican alternative to the Democratic proposal during Clinton's Presidency. They passed financial regulations--Dodd-Frank--but that was a far cry from anything like Glass-Steagall, and it's been chipped away over the course of Obama's Presidency and now Trump's. And unlike this year, where Trump went around before the election and got his base riled up to vote, blunting the strong Democratic turnout, Obama didn't do that--or not nearly as much--in 2010 or 2014.

And this is where I think one of the best aspects of the US electoral system comes into play--primaries. One way of keeping politicians in check is threatening to cost them their renomination, and that's arguably easier to do in the US system than most other places.

Now, as to the point about hope, that the results of the 2018 election makes it harder for Democrats to retake the Senate in 2020 is simply a fact. So too is the observation that Republicans are putting young batshit insane ideologues on the federal courts, and that will make it harder for Democratic policies to stick. But that isn't a reason to give up hope--that's a reason to fight even harder.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.