Author Topic: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington  (Read 76369 times)

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Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1980 on: January 21, 2018, 06:49:23 pm »
A view into how when you dehumanize people with terms like "illegals" they become some far away "other". Some Trump voters are shocked that their friends and members of their community are now being deported.

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-42667659/the-missing-consequences-of-trump-s-immigration-crackdown

"But my friends are the good ones!"
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Offline Eiki-mun

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1981 on: January 22, 2018, 03:19:56 am »
A view into how when you dehumanize people with terms like "illegals" they become some far away "other". Some Trump voters are shocked that their friends and members of their community are now being deported.

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-42667659/the-missing-consequences-of-trump-s-immigration-crackdown

"But my friends are the good ones!"

Doesn't matter. Donald Trump said he was gonna take the illegals away. And he's taking the illegals away. Really I'm not sure how they didn't see this coming.

To anyone who voted for Donald Trump and is now complaining that he's doing what he said he was gonna do, I say "well fuck, maybe you shouldn't have voted for him then. Actions have consequences, asshole."
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Offline Dappler

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1982 on: January 22, 2018, 05:50:36 am »
Someone needs to follow up on lil Bob Corker's daycare tweet theme, with something along the lines of,

Can the 'adults' in charge of the Daycare Centre please stop rejecting all the bilateral proposals being tabled.



Get to point out Trump is a baby and an imbecile, blame the people actually responsible for the impasse, and possibly also get Trumpy pissed at them. Make Miller the next Bannon, and make Trump massively resentful of Kelly.

Offline ironbite

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1983 on: January 22, 2018, 03:18:51 pm »
Well the Government is funded and oh hey, the Republicans blinked.  ChIP is funded for the next 6 years and the government gets to keep going for another 3 weeks for the  Turtle to put forth a clean DACA bill otherwise we're right back here.

Ironbite-good game.

Offline Id82

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1984 on: January 22, 2018, 06:29:41 pm »
And of course the dems get all of the blame for the shut down.

Offline niam2023

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1985 on: January 22, 2018, 07:07:10 pm »
No - the blame is placed squarely on the shoulders of the Repubs. I have seen polls that demonstrate this. People are not so blind as to ignore that Republicans control Senate, House and the Presidency and this still happened.
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Offline Svata

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1986 on: January 22, 2018, 07:54:34 pm »
It's still a bad look for the democrats. Because they were standing against the funding and now most of them voted for it. People who aren't as invested will probably just see the surface level of that.
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Offline ironbite

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1987 on: January 22, 2018, 08:39:11 pm »
You're adorable if you think this makes the Democrats look bad.

Ironbite-like super adorable.

Offline The_Queen

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1988 on: January 22, 2018, 10:32:41 pm »
No - the blame is placed squarely on the shoulders of the Repubs. I have seen polls that demonstrate this. People are not so blind as to ignore that Republicans control Senate, House and the Presidency and this still happened.

What this guy said. Most polls are about 45% blaming the GOP, 25% blaming the dems. I do not know about the other 30%, but I suspect it includes options for blaming "both parties" or "the president"
Does anyone take Donald Trump seriously, anymore?

Offline rookie

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1989 on: January 22, 2018, 10:35:36 pm »
 Mostly the president and his damned wall/ fence/ moat or whatever it is today. The good part of this is they have to have something on immigration by I think the 8th. So they're able to force the issue.
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Offline Eiki-mun

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1990 on: January 22, 2018, 11:34:13 pm »
Mostly the president and his damned wall/ fence/ moat or whatever it is today. The good part of this is they have to have something on immigration by I think the 8th. So they're able to force the issue.

Or the Republicans could just do what they always do, lie and forget about the whole thing. Really, this was a terrible move by the Democrats. They traded away all their leverage in return for a few words from a man who can't be trusted. I don't think they could possibly have gotten less.
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Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1991 on: January 23, 2018, 01:19:50 am »
Or the Republicans could just do what they always do, lie and forget about the whole thing. Really, this was a terrible move by the Democrats. They traded away all their leverage in return for a few words from a man who can't be trusted. I don't think they could possibly have gotten less.

What?

If I understood right the Democrats got a life saving program funded for 6 years for giving a temporary relief of 3 weeks to the Republicans. I don't see how anyone can see this as a loss for Democrats. If neither party budges the shutdown is imminent again in three weeks and the Democrats will have as much leverage then as before this deal.

Offline niam2023

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1992 on: January 23, 2018, 01:20:33 am »
No - the blame is placed squarely on the shoulders of the Repubs. I have seen polls that demonstrate this. People are not so blind as to ignore that Republicans control Senate, House and the Presidency and this still happened.

What this guy said. Most polls are about 45% blaming the GOP, 25% blaming the dems. I do not know about the other 30%, but I suspect it includes options for blaming "both parties" or "the president"

The Queen speaks correctly. The other options are indeed Both Sides or Just The Prez.
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Offline Eiki-mun

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1993 on: January 23, 2018, 03:01:48 am »
What?

If I understood right the Democrats got a life saving program funded for 6 years for giving a temporary relief of 3 weeks to the Republicans. I don't see how anyone can see this as a loss for Democrats. If neither party budges the shutdown is imminent again in three weeks and the Democrats will have as much leverage then as before this deal.

Except the Republicans already had a plan to create a temporary spending bill that would fund CHIP. That was really never the issue - the issue was that Democrats wanted a DACA guarantee, and they shut down the government for the sake of a DACA guarantee... that they didn't get. All they got were a few empty words from Mitch McConnell, a man whose word is as good as a piece of dirt on the ground. In my eyes, that isn't exactly a win - you shut down the government and didn't even get anything out of it except a few words. Trust me, in three weeks McConnell is probably going to just conveniently forget he ever said anything and the Democrats will just go along with it, because that's what they do, has been for years.
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Offline Dappler

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1994 on: January 23, 2018, 05:12:54 am »
Really having trouble understanding Chuck on this one. (Or most of the time, come to think of it. He seems as out of touch with the Universe as Romney was.) It would've been an awesome maneuver if he thought there was a big chance the Republicans would implode and fail to undo the shutdown in the House or if Trump was going to have a dummy spit and refuse to sign, then the shutdown would've been 100%+ Republicans, and they would have zero credibility as adults, let alone Government. Didn't happen though, and didn't look like happening, so couldn't be that. And the DACA promises were weak as shit, so when nothing happens there, it'll be hard to blame the Republicans when it fails, and the CHIP and DACA 'hostage' narrative isn't being put forward enough, and isn't sticking. You know - when crowdfunding sites first opened up and contemptible douche-bags would post a photo of a puppy and say they were going to eat it (or worse) unless they got $10,000 from emo-kids and bleeding-heart liberals (and gullible morons). That's what the Republicans are doing with DACA and CHIP. Sure there's a handful of insane fuckwits who genuinely do want to eat the puppy, but the rest of it was just holding these programmes (and people) hostage to get some sweeteners, and so far the public hasn't called them out on it.

Yes the "DACA needs weeks of negotiating, and has nothing to do with the budget line" was sticking, but the counter narrative of - "we're doing this because you can't trust Republicans to do the right thing", wasn't put forward enough, and it really needed to be.

Which leads to the next three weeks. Is the focus now solely going to be on the wannabe puppy killers? DACA and CHIP are popular, even among sane Republicans (Heck, even popularish amongst the basest base going.) The Republicans are not going to look good if they try to fuck this up, but all they're going to do is talk (lie/make shit up) about security, security, security, security,  security,  security,  security,  security,  security,  security,  security,  security,  security,  security,  security,  security,  security,  security,  security,  security,  security,  security,  security,  security,  security,  security,  security,  security,  security. It's going to be 3 weeks of build the wall scaremongering and an avalanche of Dumbo-shit talking points, and the Democrats are going to get pasted with a shit-blaster for not capitulating to anything and everything the rabid right wants, because it's not about DACA, it's about all the other rubbish that's going to be attached to the bill, and Schumer just gave them the go ahead to talk about exactly that. 3 weeks of democrats talking about principles and 3 weeks of hate-mongering towards everyone except the dreamers (who won't get mentioned) by the Republicans and insane rider after insane rider and attachment.

And so in three weeks, when there is no deal, no only is the narrative going to be it's the Democrats fault for wanting immigrants to kill you in your bed and rape your children in front of your eyes, and if they then try to attach it to the budget, they've already capitulated on the precedent for doing so, and it will look terrible, both for that, and moreso because it will look like they're admitting they lost the DACA debate too, and are now trying to hold the Government hostage to fit their 'extreme' views in.

If Schumer thought he was giving the Republicans enough rope to hang themselves, he's in for one really nasty surprise - he just gave a lynch-mob a rope and a permission slip to use it in any way they see fit.

And as much as I wish I was wrong, it really fits with how poorly he judges everything else.

(There is of course the outside possibility that something will pass, but given he has just given all the ground and the upper hand to the Republicans, and the extreme right were running this unmitigated shit-show already, which is why the saner (but still extremely shitty) bipartisan compromises went nowhere, this is frankly a ridiculous thing to expect. You don't give ground to bigots and zealots and expect them to reciprocate - it just encourages them to double or triple their efforts.)

The other option is playing the martyr, bowing out quietly, and watching ICE trying to deport dreamers before the mid-terms. That is a destructive and stupid thing to do, and frankly if you normalise it, it's saner than half of Trumps other shit, so blow-back could be a lot, LOT less than they're banking on - not to mention you just can't do that to people (or puppies), and they'd also be blaming the Democrats (for not paying the $10,000). We gave them a chance to save the dreamers and they didn't. They chose not to. They chose to put politics over people. (You know, like the people who created the situation in the first place, but ssssh on that bit.) Also the SCOTUS might reinstate DACA before then.