Author Topic: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington  (Read 61851 times)

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Offline Art Vandelay

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #90 on: November 24, 2016, 09:39:37 pm »
That's true for political parties, for sure but if some Trump supporter jumps into a leftie thread and barfs "suck it byatches, your spook in chief is gone and your byatch is bleeding from her whateva" are said lefties under any obligation to hold back on those hurtful accusations of bigotry?
I'm tad surprised that I have to explain this, but okay. Obviously, meaningful discussion is a two way street. It does require the other party to be willing to argue in good faith, and therefore it excludes individuals like internet trolls. Unless you're arguing that every Trump supporter or indeed right winger in general is on the same level as an internet troll, I'm not too sure how this is relevant.

Also, I thought I was quite clear in that I'm not against accusing bigots of bigotry. Like I said, telling your opponent that they're wrong and explaining why they're wrong as thoroughly as you possibly can is an important part of a political discussion. This goes for bigotry as much as any other issue.
In any case Clinton went to great pains to talk about the Trump voters who weren't Deplorables but merely justifiably worried about their economic and social prospects. Fox News, Brietbart, Heat St et al filtered that into "SNOOTY McSNOOT CALLS Y'ALL DEPLORABLE!!!"
Yeah, that's also an important (though somewhat separate) concern.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #91 on: November 24, 2016, 10:28:44 pm »
Yeah, I dig it Art. I'm fudging some finer details here.

That said, noting that racism is a factor in politics or noting that a politician is using dog-whistle racist signalling to their constituents is not the same as saying said constituents are just a bunch of racists. Sometimes it's just a fair analysis of what"s going on.


Offline Art Vandelay

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #92 on: November 25, 2016, 12:28:42 am »
That said, noting that racism is a factor in politics or noting that a politician is using dog-whistle racist signalling to their constituents is not the same as saying said constituents are just a bunch of racists. Sometimes it's just a fair analysis of what"s going on.
Exactly. In fact, my overall point is essentially that the former is far more useful and productive than the latter.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #93 on: November 25, 2016, 02:35:15 am »
Well, Trumps a heck of a lot better so far at keeping his promises to his just plain racist constituents than his struggling middle and working class voters.

The Alt-Right's own Bannon cosying up to the prez as chief strategist, Sessions-a guy who's federal judgeship was knocked back because of his less than friendly attitude towards civil rights is his attorney general pick, his pick for national security adviser Flynn is a conspiracy theorist who thinks fear of Muslims is rational.

Tax relief for the middle class? Nope. Getting coal miners their jobs back? Nope and Nope. Massive new infrastructure, probably not.

I mean it hasn't all been white roses for the 8chan crowd, when they ran around screaming "hail victory" in their stubble-cuts in front of eager camera-snapping journos even Trump had to say he disavowed them. Still, he's been better at keeping his promises to the racist chan freaks than the struggling rust-belters thus far.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 02:37:37 am by Tolpuddle Martyr »

Offline Søren

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #94 on: November 25, 2016, 02:51:35 am »


I mean it hasn't all been white roses for the 8chan crowd, when they ran around screaming "hail victory" in their stubble-cuts in front of eager camera-snapping journos even Trump had to say he disavowed them. Still, he's been better at keeping his promises to the racist chan freaks than the struggling rust-belters thus far.

Yeah they just said that trump lied and is playing the joos.
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Offline Id82

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #95 on: November 25, 2016, 07:56:28 am »
Trumps only allegiance is to himself. He cares more about how the presidency well effect his business than his plans for the country. So far he's made no efforts to cut his ties to his business or set up blind trusts. In the end I think he's going to end up upsetting everyone that voted for him. Seeing that he's now flipping on a lot of his campaign promises. Or that a lot of his grandiose promises are most likely not going to happen because of congress. He's about to find out how powerful Congress is.
Which means that either Trumps supporters start voting out current congressman for more alt-righters, or angry Bernie supporters start voting in more progressive congressman. Judging from history when a party gets all of the power they don't usually hold onto it for long.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 08:01:23 am by Id82 »

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #96 on: November 25, 2016, 01:08:07 pm »
Well, Trumps a heck of a lot better so far at keeping his promises to his just plain racist constituents than his struggling middle and working class voters.

The Alt-Right's own Bannon cosying up to the prez as chief strategist, Sessions-a guy who's federal judgeship was knocked back because of his less than friendly attitude towards civil rights is his attorney general pick, his pick for national security adviser Flynn is a conspiracy theorist who thinks fear of Muslims is rational.

Tax relief for the middle class? Nope. Getting coal miners their jobs back? Nope and Nope. Massive new infrastructure, probably not.

I mean it hasn't all been white roses for the 8chan crowd, when they ran around screaming "hail victory" in their stubble-cuts in front of eager camera-snapping journos even Trump had to say he disavowed them. Still, he's been better at keeping his promises to the racist chan freaks than the struggling rust-belters thus far.

If this is the case, then it looks like he'll be a one-term president, if that. He can't win with the bigot vote alone.
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Offline Askold

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #97 on: November 25, 2016, 04:11:20 pm »
THE VOTING IS RIGGED AND FINALLY WE HAVE THE PROOOF!

http://www.palmerreport.com/news/three-wisconsin-precincts-revise-vote-totals-caught-padding-donald-trumps-numbers/228/

...Oh wait, which team did that? Because it only counts when the other side is doing it. (Sadly both parties act that way in USA and that's one of the reasons why things stay so bad.)

Still, I wonder what the result of the possible recount would be? I didn't think that Hillary could catch up to Donald even if there had been some vote but if just a cursory look can uncover something like this maybe there's more?

EDIT: and another source for the same story: http://wbay.com/2016/11/22/discrepancies-in-unofficial-outagamie-county-election-results-explained/
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 04:13:27 pm by Askold »
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Offline ironbite

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #98 on: November 25, 2016, 05:09:03 pm »
Jill Stien is working on the money to get a recount started.  If this happens, the results of the election might change.

Ironbite-and we won't be in Darkest Timeline.

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #99 on: November 25, 2016, 06:22:48 pm »
Jill Stien is working on the money to get a recount started.  If this happens, the results of the election might change.

Ironbite-and we won't be in Darkest Timeline.

That's a slim hope at best. I think she's focused solely on Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania (she should also look at Florida and maybe also North Carolina), and all three of those states would have to flip to make Clinton the winner. They're all close, but I can't see all of them flipping as the result of recounts. (Which is why I'd look at more states.)
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Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #100 on: November 25, 2016, 06:33:27 pm »
Well, she says that the intention is not to flip the election but make sure people can trust that the voting system is reliable.

Edit: If I've understood correctly the recount must be initiated by the Clinton campaign. Stein is just trying to collect the funds for the process - lawyers' fees and the recount costs.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 06:36:01 pm by SCarpelan »

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #101 on: November 25, 2016, 06:39:49 pm »
Well, she says that the intention is not to flip the election but make sure people can trust that the voting system is reliable.

Edit: If I've understood correctly the recount must be initiated by the Clinton campaign. Stein is just trying to collect the funds for the process - lawyers' fees and the recount costs.

I wouldn't think it would have to be. Stein was a candidate herself, and she claims to have evidence that the voting systems were manipulated. That should be enough--but then I'm not an expert on US election law, especially since every state does its own thing with different rules.
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It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

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Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #102 on: November 25, 2016, 07:06:26 pm »
Well, she says that the intention is not to flip the election but make sure people can trust that the voting system is reliable.

Edit: If I've understood correctly the recount must be initiated by the Clinton campaign. Stein is just trying to collect the funds for the process - lawyers' fees and the recount costs.

I wouldn't think it would have to be. Stein was a candidate herself, and she claims to have evidence that the voting systems were manipulated. That should be enough--but then I'm not an expert on US election law, especially since every state does its own thing with different rules.
Okay. The story I read about it said she is collecting the money and has been in contact with Podesta about the issue. Then it went on to discuss the deadlines for Clinton to file a complaint in each of the states instead of discussing a possibility of Stein filing it herself. That's just one story, though, so I put the qualification of uncertainty in my post.

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #103 on: November 25, 2016, 08:12:58 pm »
Well, she says that the intention is not to flip the election but make sure people can trust that the voting system is reliable.

Edit: If I've understood correctly the recount must be initiated by the Clinton campaign. Stein is just trying to collect the funds for the process - lawyers' fees and the recount costs.

I wouldn't think it would have to be. Stein was a candidate herself, and she claims to have evidence that the voting systems were manipulated. That should be enough--but then I'm not an expert on US election law, especially since every state does its own thing with different rules.
Okay. The story I read about it said she is collecting the money and has been in contact with Podesta about the issue. Then it went on to discuss the deadlines for Clinton to file a complaint in each of the states instead of discussing a possibility of Stein filing it herself. That's just one story, though, so I put the qualification of uncertainty in my post.

Maybe the rules are different for Clinton because her share of the vote was higher than Stein's. (They do that with stuff like getting on the ballot--candidates/parties that got a sufficiently high share of the vote in the last election often face reduced requirements, if they aren't automatically requalified.)

Again, not an expert.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

Quote
Be weird, cause normal is boring.

Quote
From my rotting body, flowers will grow and I am in them and that is eternity.

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #104 on: November 27, 2016, 11:27:03 pm »
I think there are some valuable lessons to take away from this election.
Beware those who hate the rich more than they love the poor.