Author Topic: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington  (Read 60981 times)

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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #390 on: January 17, 2017, 10:08:02 pm »
Are you sure that's not the result of people trying to "reclaim" the term? That's not to say there aren't people abusing the term (I've seen it applied to some of DSP's critics), but when you have people like Laurie Penny saying that being a "social justice warrior" is something to be proud of, it's hard to say the dilution of the phrase rests entirely on their shoulders.
Yeah, I'm sure.

Also, I know-not all white people yadda yadda. It's still a fact that mostly white people elected Trump and over 40% of those white people are racist as balls. Those are factual statements, not a plot to make white people feel bad man.

The key word is "problematic". There's a big difference between IHE losing his temper at The Amazing Bulk for being a horrible excuse for a movie and religious fanatics claiming that DnD leads teenagers to the Devil. One is an understandable, human response to watching a lazy, incomprehensible mess that's only a movie by dictionary definition. The other is a load of hysterical nonsense.
Not everyone using the word "problematic" is calling for stuff to be banned. Yes Jack Thompson and BADD (Bothered About Dungeons and Dragons) did want to ban stuff, but I don't think they ever used the word "problematic".

Thinking that people using the term "problematic" is a portent of the banning police coming and banning the stuff you love is also lazy and hysterical.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 10:29:18 pm by Tolpuddle Martyr »

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #391 on: January 17, 2017, 11:14:49 pm »
Are you sure that's not the result of people trying to "reclaim" the term? That's not to say there aren't people abusing the term (I've seen it applied to some of DSP's critics), but when you have people like Laurie Penny saying that being a "social justice warrior" is something to be proud of, it's hard to say the dilution of the phrase rests entirely on their shoulders.
Yeah, I'm sure.

Also, I know-not all white people yadda yadda. It's still a fact that mostly white people elected Trump and over 40% of those white people are racist as balls. Those are factual statements, not a plot to make white people feel bad man.

1. How do those Reddit links prove anything?

2. Yes, they are. See, if the rhetoric stopped there, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But then people go overboard and start assigning collective guilt to white America, or saying that all Trump voters are racists, and then the fecal matter hits the rotary impeller.

The key word is "problematic". There's a big difference between IHE losing his temper at The Amazing Bulk for being a horrible excuse for a movie and religious fanatics claiming that DnD leads teenagers to the Devil. One is an understandable, human response to watching a lazy, incomprehensible mess that's only a movie by dictionary definition. The other is a load of hysterical nonsense.
Not everyone using the word "problematic" is calling for stuff to be banned. Yes Jack Thompson and BADD (Bothered About Dungeons and Dragons) did want to ban stuff, but I don't think they ever used the word "problematic".

Thinking that people using the term "problematic" is a portent of the banning police coming and banning the stuff you love is also lazy and hysterical.
[/quote]

It doesn't matter whether they actually use the word. People can say "problematic" without being censorious moral busybodies, and people can be censorious moral busybodies without saying "problematic". When I said "problematic" was the key word, I intended to clarify that I was speaking of OTT moralistic criticisms. Let's not get bogged down in issues of other people's semantics. What I'm talking about is the attitude, not the vocabulary.
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #392 on: January 17, 2017, 11:36:44 pm »
They show folks using SJW are bottom feeding reptiles who probably didn't start tossing it about because someone tried to "reclaim" the term unironically. Frankly it proves as much as your assertion that it might have been SJWs trying to reclaim SJWness by taking the acronym back.

I wouldn't have a problem with it. But then people go overboard and start assigning collective guilt to white America, or saying that all Trump voters are racists, and then the fecal matter hits the rotary impeller. feel bad man.

Well that's a change of tune, see I distinctly recall you saying that calling them racist at all was unfair.

I'd like to point out that saying Trump's supporters are racist is unfair. Voters don't magically take on their candidate's character flaws.
They just give them their blessing.

America has voted already, well-at least the electoral college has voted in it's stead. Trump supporters are likely to get just as pissed at a nuanced statement saying that a percentage of them are racist as a flat out statement calling them all racist. After all, Hillary's "deplorables" comment made clear that she wasn't talking about every single Trump supporter or calling them all racist and look how that went over. We can discuss it or not, it's relevant to the topic but there's no point on holding back because you might piss off a Trump supporter.


Offline Eiki-mun

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #393 on: January 17, 2017, 11:39:12 pm »
The fuck are y'all even talking about
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Online dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #394 on: January 17, 2017, 11:43:46 pm »
Evil plan Obama should absolutely do: Resign as President on Thursday, so Biden can be sworn in, and ruin all the "45th President" paraphernalia prepared for Trump's inauguration.
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Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #395 on: January 18, 2017, 12:20:44 am »
They show folks using SJW are bottom feeding reptiles who probably didn't start tossing it about because someone tried to "reclaim" the term unironically. Frankly it proves as much as your assertion that it might have been SJWs trying to reclaim SJWness by taking the acronym back.

No, the first shows that there are right-wing idiots on Tumblr in addition to left-wing idiots, and the second makes a lot of claims with evidence for precisely none of them. Neither one proves that the term has been perverted by anti-SJWs. Nor do they prove that the term's been perverted to the extent you claim.

I wouldn't have a problem with it. But then people go overboard and start assigning collective guilt to white America, or saying that all Trump voters are racists, and then the fecal matter hits the rotary impeller. feel bad man.

Well that's a change of tune, see I distinctly recall you saying that calling them racist at all was unfair.

I'd like to point out that saying Trump's supporters are racist is unfair. Voters don't magically take on their candidate's character flaws.
They just give them their blessing.

America has voted already, well-at least the electoral college has voted in it's stead. Trump supporters are likely to get just as pissed at a nuanced statement saying that a percentage of them are racist as a flat out statement calling them all racist. After all, Hillary's "deplorables" comment made clear that she wasn't talking about every single Trump supporter or calling them all racist and look how that went over. We can discuss it or not, it's relevant to the topic but there's no point on holding back because you might piss off a Trump supporter.

No, I said that blanket labeling of them as "racist" is unfair. I have no problem with people saying some Trump supporters are racist, or that a significant portion of Trump supporters are racist, because that's objective fact. But when you say "Trump supporters" without any qualifiers, it kind of sounds like you're talking about every last one of them, at least to me.
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #396 on: January 18, 2017, 12:46:03 am »
Has anyone here actually made the claim that every single Trump supporter is racist?

Also-the ultimate responsibility for the perversion of the term SJW rests on the same people who "perverted" your venerable academic term "Cultural Marxism". Take it up with them.

Offline Askold

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #397 on: January 18, 2017, 01:49:53 am »
Has anyone here actually made the claim that every single Trump supporter is racist?

I don't think so. The point has been that after everything Trump has said and his team has done everyone who voted him has lost any excuse to claim that they didn't know that Trump's administration is going to be racist and because of that they were complicit in helping racists rise to power.

Someone in particular mentioned that they will now refer to Trump voters as supporting racism because that is what they did even if they just said that they liked his hair or business expertise or whatever.
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #398 on: January 18, 2017, 02:10:06 am »
Has anyone here actually made the claim that every single Trump supporter is racist?

I don't think so. The point has been that after everything Trump has said and his team has done everyone who voted him has lost any excuse to claim that they didn't know that Trump's administration is going to be racist and because of that they were complicit in helping racists rise to power.

Someone in particular mentioned that they will now refer to Trump voters as supporting racism because that is what they did even if they just said that they liked his hair or business expertise or whatever.
Grand, good. Glad we all agree.

So, this topic is in fact about Mr Trump going to Washington and not about the arcane origins of the acronym "SJW" or the term "Cultural Marxism", right?

Thought the thread might be getting derailed for a moment there!

Offline Askold

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #399 on: January 18, 2017, 03:30:37 am »
After all those stories about famous musicians refusing to perform at Trump's inauguration I just wonder why the heck did they waste their time asking people like Elton John and Ice-T who are not the kind of people who would willingly help Trump when they could have asked musicians who LIKE Trump. There's gotta be some right?

How about that Nugent guy who brandishes guns during his performances and threatened to kill Clinton and Obama? Doesn't he seem like a perfect match?
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Online dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #400 on: January 18, 2017, 03:36:36 am »
http://www.rawstory.com/2017/01/nobody-wants-to-buy-them-frustrated-scalpers-losing-big-money-trying-to-sell-inauguration-tickets/

Okay, I have to admit, I'm feeling the schadenfreude here.

Scalpers bought tons of tickets for the presidential inauguration, with the usual aim of flipping them for a massive profit. Just one problem: nobody wants to go to Trump's inauguration.

Even if they can get the tickets for less than face value.

And not even people on white supremacist websites will take them, at least not for more than $100.

And it's looking like the protest the next day, the Women's March on Washington, will be better attended than Trump's inauguration.

Yep, definitely feeling the schadenfreude.
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #401 on: January 18, 2017, 03:44:32 am »
They asked Moby.

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“Hahahahaha, I was just asked by a booking agent if I would consider djing at one of the inaugural balls for #trump ... Hahahahaha, wait, Hahahaha, really? I guess I’d DJ at an inaugural ball if as payment #trump released his tax returns. Also I would probably play public enemy and Stockhausen remixes to entertain the republicans. I’m still laughing. Hahahaha. So #trump what do you think, I DJ for you and you release your tax returns?”

This guy.

They can't get cover bands to perform.

But hey, Three Doors Down are playing-and their fans hate them for it!

Offline Cloud3514

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #402 on: January 18, 2017, 04:33:20 am »
So was Ted Nugent too expensive for them? Because seriously, the guy is probably practically worshiping Trump.
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Offline ironbite

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #403 on: January 18, 2017, 08:25:24 am »
I don't think he's famous enough for them

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #404 on: January 18, 2017, 10:04:47 am »
Has anyone here actually made the claim that every single Trump supporter is racist?

Yes.

And I maintain that calling Trump supporters racist isn't unreasonable. Sure, not every single person who voted for Trump did it out of racist feelings, but as you and others seem to have espoused, feelings don't particularly matter. Endeavouring to put an openly virulent bigot into office continues to be an inherently racist act regardless of one's internal feelings about it, because you can't just slice Donald Trump into pieces and put the ones you personally like into office.

Also-the ultimate responsibility for the perversion of the term SJW rests on the same people who "perverted" your venerable academic term "Cultural Marxism". Take it up with them.

No, it doesn't. While I will agree that the label's been overused, much like the case with "alt-right", the fundamental meaning generally remains the same for those who use it pejoratively. There may be disagreements about where the line between "activist" and "SJW" begins, but it's a difference of degree rather than kind. For the most part, it's people like Laurie Penny who tried to redefine the term, possibly as an attempt to implicitly brand anybody complaining about SJWs as a hate-filled, backwards right-wing radical. The fundamental difference is this: the extreme right tried to redefine "Cultural Marxism" to lend a veneer of credibility to their ideas, while the extreme left tried to redefine "SJW" with possible ulterior motives.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 10:35:00 am by Lana Reverse »
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