Author Topic: Redneck revolt  (Read 807 times)

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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: Redneck revolt
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2017, 08:31:52 am »
There are communists i n Finland at least. Not many and they have several political parties because tbey can't stand each other. The fall of USSR caused a lot of ideological splits.

Nowadays leftists are mainly in the "Nordic democracy seems awesome let's go back to that" and generally they are not in support of a communist state.

Meh, that's just the sales pitch.

It's basically analogous when a detatchment of Jehovas Witnesses come to your door showing you brightly coloured artwork of what heaven looks like.

"See how wonderful these Nordics are, we should be like them!" they say, so you sign up and only too late do you realise that you've joined a sadistic cult that controls every aspect of your life and enforces your conformity with dire threats against you and your family.

There's no actual evidence for this of course, but since when do Tories lower themselves to these silly prole "facts"?

Oh look it's commubot.  Here to regale us with more tales of Venezuela's prosperity and decry the ebul Tories and the massive and totally fictional recession they've caused, no doubt.

I mean it's a nice touch having a socialist version of cleverbot running on the forum, it's funny and topical in a "Fake News"-y kind of way, but it could do with some tuning as the stuff its spouting seems to be at a 180 degree variance from observable reality.

That's nice. No actual evidence though I see, which is, I'm sure, the result of some regrettable memory lapse.
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

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Offline TheContrarian

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Re: Redneck revolt
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2017, 08:52:28 am »
There are communists i n Finland at least. Not many and they have several political parties because tbey can't stand each other. The fall of USSR caused a lot of ideological splits.

Nowadays leftists are mainly in the "Nordic democracy seems awesome let's go back to that" and generally they are not in support of a communist state.

Meh, that's just the sales pitch.

It's basically analogous when a detatchment of Jehovas Witnesses come to your door showing you brightly coloured artwork of what heaven looks like.

"See how wonderful these Nordics are, we should be like them!" they say, so you sign up and only too late do you realise that you've joined a sadistic cult that controls every aspect of your life and enforces your conformity with dire threats against you and your family.

There's no actual evidence for this of course, but since when do Tories lower themselves to these silly prole "facts"?

Oh look it's commubot.  Here to regale us with more tales of Venezuela's prosperity and decry the ebul Tories and the massive and totally fictional recession they've caused, no doubt.

I mean it's a nice touch having a socialist version of cleverbot running on the forum, it's funny and topical in a "Fake News"-y kind of way, but it could do with some tuning as the stuff its spouting seems to be at a 180 degree variance from observable reality.

That's nice. No actual evidence though I see, which is, I'm sure, the result of some regrettable memory lapse.

Evidence of what, you claiming that the Tories drove the country into a recession when this clearly isn't the case?

This must be very difficult for the Contrarian. His party drove the country into recession and played footsie with the racist right to hold government - a decision that caused catastrophe. And now a resurgent firmly left-wing Labour has crushed them horribly in an election they arrogantly thought they had in the bag. The public doesn't want any more of his ignorant thieving bullshit any more. Thatcherism is dead. The public killed it at the ballot box. Everything he believes is wrong and has always been wrong.

Read the above.  Now, sentient beings with the ability to do two seconds of research would realise that the UK economy hasn't been in recession for almost 8 years now.  So you're either a liar, an idiot with a very tenuous grasp on reality, or a poorly programmed commubot.  Which is it?


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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: Redneck revolt
« Reply #32 on: August 06, 2017, 08:57:03 am »
There are communists i n Finland at least. Not many and they have several political parties because tbey can't stand each other. The fall of USSR caused a lot of ideological splits.

Nowadays leftists are mainly in the "Nordic democracy seems awesome let's go back to that" and generally they are not in support of a communist state.

Meh, that's just the sales pitch.

It's basically analogous when a detatchment of Jehovas Witnesses come to your door showing you brightly coloured artwork of what heaven looks like.

"See how wonderful these Nordics are, we should be like them!" they say, so you sign up and only too late do you realise that you've joined a sadistic cult that controls every aspect of your life and enforces your conformity with dire threats against you and your family.

There's no actual evidence for this of course, but since when do Tories lower themselves to these silly prole "facts"?

Oh look it's commubot.  Here to regale us with more tales of Venezuela's prosperity and decry the ebul Tories and the massive and totally fictional recession they've caused, no doubt.

I mean it's a nice touch having a socialist version of cleverbot running on the forum, it's funny and topical in a "Fake News"-y kind of way, but it could do with some tuning as the stuff its spouting seems to be at a 180 degree variance from observable reality.

That's nice. No actual evidence though I see, which is, I'm sure, the result of some regrettable memory lapse.

Evidence of what, (red herring omitted)?

That social democrats and moderate socialists are just the "sales pitch" for Stalinism, that nobody believes we should imitate the Nordic countries economic model. For instance, this includes me.
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

The party's name is the Democratic Party. It has been since 1830. Please spell correctly.

"The party must go wholly one way or wholly the other. It cannot face in both directions at the same time."
-FDR

Offline The_Queen

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Re: Redneck revolt
« Reply #33 on: August 06, 2017, 11:36:58 am »
Speaking of observable reality, you've still yet to explain how the existence of the Nordics and their perfectly functional democratic socialist governments is a thing according to your world view.

Listen Mr. "Scientists" with your "observations" and your "facts" ...
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Redneck revolt
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2017, 08:31:59 am »
Contrarian, if the social Democrats always do an Ultron-like shift into giant fire breathing Stalin robots, then why has every communist revolutionary of the 20th century been a die-hard communist who rejected western style social democracy? Lenin was annoyed with trade unions and traditional socialists because they were all obsessed with what he considered petty issues like working conditions and wages. His "Vanguard of the "Proletariat" was his way of saying that they couldn't be trusted get their shit together. Mao campaigned as communist so did Che Guevara. The North Korean party was planted there by the Soviet union and every anti commies favorite bugbear, Pol Pot, was so fucking radical the Viet Cong thought he was nuts! These were not people who started campaigning with "lets get some safe spaces and healthcare going guyyyss, everyone be cool mannn..."

The key flaw in your assumption as that these people were ever social democrats to start with.  If your "traditional socialists" don't mix well with actual Marxists then surely we should be just a mite suspicious about someone who publicly proclaims his socialist credentials but then turns out to be a hammer and sickle waving Leninist?  It just reinforces my point that there's a fucking sinister undercurrent to all of this and if you believe the public persona these fucks are putting on, then they're playing you like a fiddle.

Yeah, we had International Socialists in uni. We also had the Socialist Party. Hammers, sickles, red yeah, yellow stars, yeah. Stalinists they aint, even Leninists is pretty bloody doubtful. About to convince Australia to toss off their beach towels, turn off the cricket and storm the houses of parliament? You're bloody dreaming!

Only the Spartacists were dyed-in the wool, hard nosed IRL commies and all the other socialist factions thought they were nuts. I nearly died laughing when one of it's few holdovers, an earnest chap who looked more well suited to a Baptist prayer group, was patiently trying to explain the concept of Deformed Worker States to me.

Marxism definitely has a more left wing, social democratic strand in the west and it's proved more durable to the passage of time than the communist old guard precisely because most left wing people, including the IS and SP members, don't want to live in a Stalinist state! Even the Sparts call those Deformed. Relax grandad, they're undergraduates-not the Khmer Rouge.  Calm down!

Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Redneck revolt
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2017, 08:43:17 am »
Of course, there's also the fact that conflating Communism with Stalinism is a tad bit disingenuous.  Yeah, Communism does certainly allow for certain...unscrupulous people to be at the helm assuming they establish a cult of personality and crush dissent early on like Stalin and the Kim dynasty.  But, at its heart, the entire point isn't for one madman to be in charge; the entire point, if you ask me, is that no one person is left behind.  No matter who we are or in what kind of society we live, even one in total anarchy, we're all cogs in the societal machine.  Communism tries to even the load between all said cogs; as the saying goes, "a burden shared is a burden divided."  Of course, there's inherent flaws in that philosophy as it doesn't quite mesh with the more individualistic cultures, especially those in the more advanced, well-to-do nations.

Hell, one could argue our entire tax structure here in the States is Communistic.  After all, part of its purpose is to redistribute wealth to sectors that ostensibly need it, like infrastructure maintenance, education, and law enforcement.  Its pretty much an established fact that we're rather shit at doing it properly, but that doesn't change its purpose, even if it doesn't entirely keep within the spirit of the thing.
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Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Redneck revolt
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2017, 05:37:10 pm »
I know I'm probably gonna regret feeding the troll, but screw it.

Contrarian, there's a world of difference between being skeptical or critical of socialism, and thinking all its adherents are closet Stalinists. If you have evidence for this claim, why don't you show us?
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Redneck revolt
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2017, 05:39:06 pm »
Which all goes to show that socialism, communism, Marxism, democracy are all complex concepts in their own right and a few red flags behind a member of the very un-radical British Labour party shouldn't frighten grandad into thinking that they're a scary vanguard of red guards who'll force him to pay his telly license and redistribute his splendid stove-pipe hat into little felt rags amongst uncultured chavs who'll do unspeakable things to the unjustly communalised shreds.

Conty, stop fretting. You'll be fine!