Author Topic: Why Christianity does not contradict science  (Read 163 times)

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Offline Jacob Harrison

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Why Christianity does not contradict science
« on: May 28, 2018, 05:32:29 pm »
Many people argue that Christianity contradicts science because it’s creation story, Genesis 1 contradicts what we know about evolution. Many are rightfully frustrated that charletans such as Ken Ham make money off of promoting bullshit such as the idea of a 6000 year old earth and that the flood of Noah’s ark was a global flood and that dinosaurs were on it.

However, the young earth creationists are missing what the Bible is meant to be. The Bible is not a science textbook. Throughout the history of Christianity, Christians have known that the Bible is the inspired word of God that contains history as well as poetry and metaphors. St. Augustine knew that Genesis 1 could not be literal because it says that light and darkness, day and night were created on the first day, yet the sun, moon, and stars were not created until the fourth day. Genesis is a poem explaining that God created the universe and Earth.

The story of Adam and Eve is a story to teach how humans have original sin because they fallen to the temptations of Satan by trying to be like God. If humans were without sin, they would have eternal life in heaven, but since they sin, unrepentant sinners perish and go to hell.

The story of Cain and Abel has a similar meaning. Murderers face accountablity for their crimes and cannot hide what they did from God.

As for Noah’s ark, it is a poem based on actuall local flood in Mesopotamia(that the Epic of Gilgamesh is also based on) The message is that God punishes the wicked but saves the righteous.

The main message of the Bible is that in order to save humans from damnation, God chose Abraham to have his descendants(the ancient Israelites) be his chosen people and that through his chosen people, he had his son Jesus who was part of God and was with God from the beginning born of the Virgin Mary in human form to sacrifice himself and die for the sins of humanity. So now us Christians are God’s chosen people because we are the ones who are saved.  The Ten Commandments and the teachings of Christ and the apostles are teachings on how we Christians should live our lives. Salvation is by faith and good works.

So do not let the ignorant young earth charletans like Ken Ham and Ray Comfort and their retarded followers dissuade you from converting to Christianity. Evolution and Christianity are not incompatible.




Offline dpareja

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Re: Why Christianity does not contradict science
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2018, 05:39:35 pm »
Give me some solid, general criteria (that do not require knowledge of ethics, science or history--no saying "throw out the parts which contradict those things") to tell which parts of the Bible are to be taken literally and which metaphorically, which laws in the Pentateuch are to be obeyed today and which are to be disregarded, and so forth, that do not amount to an exhaustive list but rather are principles allowing anyone to make that determination, and I'll start to consider it. Maybe.
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It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

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Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: Why Christianity does not contradict science
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2018, 05:57:27 pm »
Give me some solid, general criteria (that do not require knowledge of ethics, science or history--no saying "throw out the parts which contradict those things") to tell which parts of the Bible are to be taken literally and which metaphorically, which laws in the Pentateuch are to be obeyed today and which are to be disregarded, and so forth, that do not amount to an exhaustive list but rather are principles allowing anyone to make that determination, and I'll start to consider it. Maybe.

The parts of the Bible that are to be taken literally is the part that explains the history of God’s chosen people, from Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Joseph, to the story of Moses and the Exodus, to the stories of the Prophets, the Kings, the fall of Israel to the Assyrians and Babylonians, the prophets during Israel’s exile, to the story of Jesus Christ and the Apostoles.

The parts of the Bible that are to be taken metaphorically are the ahistorical stories that teach important lessons such as the creation account, the flood, and the story of Job. Revelation is also supposed to be taken metaphorically and it’s meaning is that throughout the history of Christianity, Satan and his followers will persecute the Christian Church but will be defeated by God in the end and that all will be judged on judgement day. Christians will be given new bodies live in eternal paradise on the new heavens and the new Earth while Satan, the fallen angels, and the ghosts non Christians will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone which is A metaphor for God punishing the wicked. The  main punishment will be eternal separation from God.

The laws that are to be applied to the context of the time are the numerous Old Testament laws. The laws that apply today are the 10 commandments, and the teachings of Christ and the Apostles. The New Testament laws that you should follow are the open ended ones that don’t seem to only apply to the context of the time of the Apostles.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 06:11:59 pm by Jacob Harrison »

Offline dpareja

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Re: Why Christianity does not contradict science
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2018, 06:13:49 pm »
Just to take one point from that, you do realize that there is no historical evidence whatsoever for the Exodus, right? That was the conclusion of Israeli archaeologists tasked with attempting to find said evidence to prove that all that land was in fact Israel's by ancient right, and they came back saying, nope, it's all a myth.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: Why Christianity does not contradict science
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2018, 06:24:17 pm »
Just to take one point from that, you do realize that there is no historical evidence whatsoever for the Exodus, right? That was the conclusion of Israeli archaeologists tasked with attempting to find said evidence to prove that all that land was in fact Israel's by ancient right, and they came back saying, nope, it's all a myth.

Well the Exodus lasted only 40 years so it would be unlikely that a large amount of pottery and dead bodies would be found in the desert which they were traveling.

Offline davedan

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Re: Why Christianity does not contradict science
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2018, 06:52:26 pm »
So the binding of Isaac was literal?

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: Why Christianity does not contradict science
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2018, 09:18:09 pm »
So the binding of Isaac was literal?

Yes. But God did not have Issac killed. He did it to test Abraham’s loyalty to him.

Offline davedan

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Re: Why Christianity does not contradict science
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2018, 09:47:59 pm »
So the binding of Isaac was literal?

Yes. But God did not have Issac killed. He did it to test Abraham’s loyalty to him.

But you believe in an omniscient and omnipotent god?

But why would you think anyone would suggest that God had Isaac killed? Are you aware of the textual theories that suggest the provision of the sacrafice before the blow was struck was a later revision?

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: Why Christianity does not contradict science
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2018, 10:15:15 pm »
So the binding of Isaac was literal?

Yes. But God did not have Issac killed. He did it to test Abraham’s loyalty to him.

But you believe in an omniscient and omnipotent god?

But why would you think anyone would suggest that God had Isaac killed? Are you aware of the textual theories that suggest the provision of the sacrafice before the blow was struck was a later revision?

He is omniscient and omnipotent but he gives humans free will so that means he didn’t know if Abraham would choose to obey his orders or not. And please explain the textual theories.

Offline davedan

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Re: Why Christianity does not contradict science
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2018, 10:29:49 pm »
So the binding of Isaac was literal?

Yes. But God did not have Issac killed. He did it to test Abraham’s loyalty to him.

But you believe in an omniscient and omnipotent god?

But why would you think anyone would suggest that God had Isaac killed? Are you aware of the textual theories that suggest the provision of the sacrafice before the blow was struck was a later revision?

He is omniscient and omnipotent but he gives humans free will so that means he didn’t know if Abraham would choose to obey his orders or not. And please explain the textual theories.

Whether he gives humans freewill or not being omniscient he must have known that Abraham would obey his orders.

Here is a link to the textual theory: https://www.timesofisrael.com/when-abraham-murdered-isaac/
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 10:31:42 pm by davedan »

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Re: Why Christianity does not contradict science
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2018, 11:50:44 pm »
If you're supposed to ignore the fantastical parts that contradict reality, then why not throw out al the stuff about a magical man in the sky as "metaphor" as well? After all, it has no more grounding in reality than Genesis, pregnant virgins and people coming back from the dead only to fly up into the sky.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Why Christianity does not contradict science
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2018, 05:14:36 am »
It only "doesn't contradict" science if you take it all as "metaphor." So what's the point? We have better writers who can write better metaphors that don't involve weird sex rules.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: Why Christianity does not contradict science
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2018, 06:24:04 am »
So the binding of Isaac was literal?

Yes. But God did not have Issac killed. He did it to test Abraham’s loyalty to him.

But you believe in an omniscient and omnipotent god?

But why would you think anyone would suggest that God had Isaac killed? Are you aware of the textual theories that suggest the provision of the sacrafice before the blow was struck was a later revision?

He is omniscient and omnipotent but he gives humans free will so that means he didn’t know if Abraham would choose to obey his orders or not. And please explain the textual theories.

Whether he gives humans freewill or not being omniscient he must have known that Abraham would obey his orders.

Here is a link to the textual theory: https://www.timesofisrael.com/when-abraham-murdered-isaac/

Well it is a paradox, because since he gives humans free will to make their own decisions, it creates multiple possiblilities so that means that he didn’t know what Abraham would do.

As for that theory, another Hebrew scholar came up with an alternative simpler explanation.

“The theory also felt disconnected from what scholars know of the ancient world’s treatment of written myth. The ancients revered written text. Yet the documentary hypothesis suggests they haphazardly cut and pasted it to suit their immediate purposes.

Instead, Yoreh sought a theory “more organic to the time and place in which the Bible was written.”

The result: a version of what is called the supplementary hypothesis, which is “one of the major paradigms in Biblical scholarship,” but one that is scarcely known to the general public.
 “There is not presently any book that presents a version of it for people outside the field.”

Yoreh has sought to fill that vacuum for years. On his website, he offers a more detailed comparison of the two methods, and a lengthy, rich commentary on much of the Bible.

At its core, the supplementary theory suggests that rather than stitching together different texts, the Bible was formed from one early story line that saw successive additions to the original text.”

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: Why Christianity does not contradict science
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2018, 06:31:43 am »
If you're supposed to ignore the fantastical parts that contradict reality, then why not throw out al the stuff about a magical man in the sky as "metaphor" as well? After all, it has no more grounding in reality than Genesis, pregnant virgins and people coming back from the dead only to fly up into the sky.

Because scholars can understand the difference between texts that is to be taken metaphorically and the parts that are to be taken literally. I already explained that there is a consistent chronology from the time of Abraham to the time of Jesus and the Apostles while the other stories are parables to teach important lessons.

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Re: Why Christianity does not contradict science
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2018, 08:00:16 am »
Right. Well, maybe once you're rid of your man berries and all of those pesky hormones they produce, you'll start making sense.