Author Topic: More Proof that Christianity is true!  (Read 181 times)

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Offline Jacob Harrison

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More Proof that Christianity is true!
« on: July 02, 2018, 06:10:33 pm »
Hello. I feel like God put this in my mind, so that I can convert you guys to Christianity. I remember hearing about the story of Samuel Kaboo Morris. This is from the Wikipedia article.

“Samuel was born in Liberia, in 1873. Little is known of Samuel Morris's early life. When he was 14 years old, his tribe,(the Kru) was attacked by the Grebos one day and Kaboo was captured. He was used as a "pawn", meaning the Kru would have to bring the Grebos a present each month if they wanted to see their prince again. His father, the chief, came each time but what he brought was never enough. Finally the Kru could bring no more and Kaboo was beaten every day. One night, though, during one of his beatings, there was a flash of light and a voice told Kaboo to flee. His ropes fell off and his sick body gained strength. He ran off into the jungle, where he wandered for days living off such things as snails and mangos until he came to a coffee plantation owned by a former slave. The slave had come to Liberia and was a Christian. It was for this slave that Kaboo worked with another boy from his village before coming to America. His motivation to come to America was learning more about God and the Holy Spirit.

As he walked to the shore he prayed that there would be a boat there that could take him. There was a ship there called a tramp ship. The crew of this ship made money by trading. It was very profitable for them because natives often sold goods for useless trinkets. God told Samuel that the captain would take him to America. When Samuel asked, the captain refused at first. Later, when two of his crew members ran off leaving the captain short-handed, he accepted Samuel onboard taking him for an unemployed sailor. When he arrived on the ship, he was disliked and abused, but by the time the ship reached America, they were all praying and singing hymns.

In America, Samuel found Stephen Merritt. Mr. Merritt had to attend a prayer meeting that night so he asked Samuel to wait for him at his mission. When Mr. Merritt came back, he found Samuel in a prayer meeting of his own with the people of the mission. On his first night in America, he had led nearly twenty men to Christ.

It was his desire to be educated in the Word of God so he could go back to his homeland of Liberia and teach Jesus to the people there. However, that was not God’s plan for his life. Late in 1892, Samuel came down with an illness (Pneumonia) that he could not shake. Though he’d been sick before and prayed for God's healing and received it, this time the illness wouldn’t leave. In time, God explained to Samuel why his illness hadn’t left him. He told him that his work on earth was done and that it was time for him to come home. When Samuel related this to his fellow students, they would ask about his dream of returning home to preach the Gospel. Samuel is reported to have said, “It is not my work, Dr. Reade. It is His. I have finished my job. He will send others better than I to do the work in Africa.”

On May 12, 1893, at approximately 20 years of age, Samuel Morris, aka Prince Kaboo, died. Fellow students served as pallbearers at his funeral. After his funeral, many of them said they felt led to go to Africa to be missionaries in Samuel’s place, fulfilling Samuel’s prophecy.“

How do you explain that supernatural story?

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: More Proof that Christianity is true!
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2018, 06:48:43 pm »
Simple: the physical and mental trauma he suffered caused him to experience auditory hallucinations. And nothing else in the story hints at anything supernatural. His sudden strength? An adrenaline rush. Converting 20 people on his first day? Maybe he was just a very charismatic guy. Predicting that other students would go to Africa in his stead? You don't need to be Tiresias to imagine that they would carry out their late classmate's dream in his honor.
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Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: More Proof that Christianity is true!
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2018, 07:12:11 pm »
Simple: the physical and mental trauma he suffered caused him to experience auditory hallucinations. And nothing else in the story hints at anything supernatural. His sudden strength? An adrenaline rush. Converting 20 people on his first day? Maybe he was just a very charismatic guy. Predicting that other students would go to Africa in his stead? You don't need to be Tiresias to imagine that they would carry out their late classmate's dream in his honor.

But you don’t have auditory hallucinations unless you are drugged or near death which in that case he wouldn’t be able to run. And that does not explain how there was a flash or light or how his ropes that tied him fell off.

Offline Kanzenkankaku

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Re: More Proof that Christianity is true!
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2018, 01:30:23 am »
Islam is the light Jacob.
Allah ackbar.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: More Proof that Christianity is true!
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2018, 05:31:35 am »
Islam is the light Jacob.
Allah ackbar.

It’s terrorist founder Muhammad was the only eyewitness to the supposed encounter with the Angel Gabriel. Jesus Christ had far more witnesses, such as the Apostles Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John, as well as far mroe stories of encounters such as Prince Kaboo’s being freed of captivity by God and told to run, causing the founding of a evangelism ministry to Liberia.

Online dpareja

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Re: More Proof that Christianity is true!
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2018, 10:08:45 am »
Islam is the light Jacob.
Allah ackbar.

It’s terrorist founder Muhammad was the only eyewitness to the supposed encounter with the Angel Gabriel. Jesus Christ had far more witnesses, such as the Apostles Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John, as well as far mroe stories of encounters such as Prince Kaboo’s being freed of captivity by God and told to run, causing the founding of a evangelism ministry to Liberia.

You do realize that none of the Biblical Gospels (and there are many, many more Gospels) were written anywhere near the time of Jesus's supposed life (the epistles of Paul--at least the ones he actually wrote and not the ones that were written later and credited to him--predate the Gospels) and certainly none were written by the people to whom they are credited, right? Certainly none--not even Mark, the earliest of the four to be written--are eyewitness accounts.
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Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: More Proof that Christianity is true!
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2018, 11:37:19 am »
Islam is the light Jacob.
Allah ackbar.

It’s terrorist founder Muhammad was the only eyewitness to the supposed encounter with the Angel Gabriel. Jesus Christ had far more witnesses, such as the Apostles Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John, as well as far mroe stories of encounters such as Prince Kaboo’s being freed of captivity by God and told to run, causing the founding of a evangelism ministry to Liberia.

You do realize that none of the Biblical Gospels (and there are many, many more Gospels) were written anywhere near the time of Jesus's supposed life (the epistles of Paul--at least the ones he actually wrote and not the ones that were written later and credited to him--predate the Gospels) and certainly none were written by the people to whom they are credited, right? Certainly none--not even Mark, the earliest of the four to be written--are eyewitness accounts.

It says this on Wikipedia.

"The four canonical gospels, like the rest of the New Testament, were written in Greek,[7] Mark probably c. AD 66–70,[8] Matthew and Luke around AD 85–90,[9] and John AD 90–110"

The Gospels of Mathew and John were written at a time when the Apostles Matthew and John would still be alive but very old. The authors referred to themselves as eyewitnesses and Luke even slips into first person during some portions.

Online dpareja

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Re: More Proof that Christianity is true!
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2018, 12:11:13 pm »
...and someone else couldn't have written them and put Matthew and John's names on them? Especially back then when we had far fewer methods to verify whether the credited author was the real one?

As for Luke slipping into first person, I've read plenty of novels and short stories written in first person--does that mean that the author is relating personal events?
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline davedan

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Re: More Proof that Christianity is true!
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2018, 01:50:24 pm »
More importantly we know that Mark the disciple did not write the gospel of Mark and that the author had not met Jesus, from Papias of Hierapolis, from the wikipidea page:


Quote
Quote
Papias provides the earliest extant account of who wrote the Gospels. Eusebius preserves two (possibly) verbatim excerpts from Papias on the origins of the Gospels, one concerning Mark and then another concerning Matthew.[19]

On Mark, Papias cites John the Elder:

The Elder used to say: Mark, in his capacity as Peter’s interpreter, wrote down accurately as many things as he recalled from memory—though not in an ordered form—of the things either said or done by the Lord. For he neither heard the Lord nor accompanied him, but later, as I said, Peter, who used to give his teachings in the form of chreiai,[Notes 1] but had no intention of providing an ordered arrangement of the logia of the Lord. Consequently Mark did nothing wrong when he wrote down some individual items just as he related them from memory. For he made it his one concern not to omit anything he had heard or to falsify anything.

The excerpt regarding Matthew says only:

Therefore Matthew put the logia in an ordered arrangement in the Hebrew language, but each person interpreted them as best he could.[Notes 2]

As I understand it, Catholic Dogma is still that the Gospel of Mark was written by someone who heard it from a disciple. More importantly we know none of the gospels were written by a companion of Jesus (if a historical jesus did exist) because they were written in Greek rather than Aramaic or Hebrew.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 01:53:00 pm by davedan »

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: More Proof that Christianity is true!
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2018, 05:12:28 pm »
...and someone else couldn't have written them and put Matthew and John's names on them? Especially back then when we had far fewer methods to verify whether the credited author was the real one?

As for Luke slipping into first person, I've read plenty of novels and short stories written in first person--does that mean that the author is relating personal events?

What would be the motive for someone to make up such a story. And if the stories were not made up, then how come there were Christians from before the time the Gospels were written?

Online dpareja

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Re: More Proof that Christianity is true!
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2018, 09:03:52 pm »
...and someone else couldn't have written them and put Matthew and John's names on them? Especially back then when we had far fewer methods to verify whether the credited author was the real one?

As for Luke slipping into first person, I've read plenty of novels and short stories written in first person--does that mean that the author is relating personal events?

What would be the motive for someone to make up such a story. And if the stories were not made up, then how come there were Christians from before the time the Gospels were written?

a) What's the motive for anyone to write any work of fiction?

b) Maybe because there were other Gospels than the four that made it into the Bible?
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: More Proof that Christianity is true!
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2018, 09:34:36 pm »
...and someone else couldn't have written them and put Matthew and John's names on them? Especially back then when we had far fewer methods to verify whether the credited author was the real one?

As for Luke slipping into first person, I've read plenty of novels and short stories written in first person--does that mean that the author is relating personal events?

What would be the motive for someone to make up such a story. And if the stories were not made up, then how come there were Christians from before the time the Gospels were written?

a) What's the motive for anyone to write any work of fiction?

b) Maybe because there were other Gospels than the four that made it into the Bible?

a) Most writers of fiction market it as fiction not as the Word of God.

b) Those other gospels were declared non canonical forgeries.

Online dpareja

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Re: More Proof that Christianity is true!
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2018, 10:16:15 pm »
...and someone else couldn't have written them and put Matthew and John's names on them? Especially back then when we had far fewer methods to verify whether the credited author was the real one?

As for Luke slipping into first person, I've read plenty of novels and short stories written in first person--does that mean that the author is relating personal events?

What would be the motive for someone to make up such a story. And if the stories were not made up, then how come there were Christians from before the time the Gospels were written?

a) What's the motive for anyone to write any work of fiction?

b) Maybe because there were other Gospels than the four that made it into the Bible?

a) Most writers of fiction market it as fiction not as the Word of God.

b) Those other gospels were declared non canonical forgeries.

a) So the Bible is just being marketed as the Word of God? I mean, there's other texts out there that claim to be the "Word of God" (or a god, anyway), a good number of which predate the Bible, and those that postdate it could say that they're refinements of the Bible... so how am I supposed to decide between them when they all make incredible (as in, lacking credibility), absurd, ridiculous claims?

b) By whom? A bunch of guys in a room deciding which ones best fit the doctrine they wanted to push, not actual historians scrutinizing all the evidence and determining which accounts most closely match it (and we know they can't all match what actually happened, even given all the supernatural stuff, since they all contradict each other). Probably the closest we've ever gotten to a true account of Jesus' life (assuming such existed) is the Jefferson Bible, and it's not like that was particularly great, either.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: More Proof that Christianity is true!
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2018, 10:52:25 pm »
But, but the Council of Nicea. A gathering of  cranky cultists each with their own axe to grind is the most reliable source eva!

Have no faith in cranky cultist conventions, what's wrong with you?

Offline Kanzenkankaku

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Re: More Proof that Christianity is true!
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2018, 02:27:48 am »
Islam is the light Jacob.
Allah ackbar.

It’s terrorist founder Muhammad was the only eyewitness to the supposed encounter with the Angel Gabriel. Jesus Christ had far more witnesses, such as the Apostles Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John, as well as far mroe stories of encounters such as Prince Kaboo’s being freed of captivity by God and told to run, causing the founding of a evangelism ministry to Liberia.

That's adorable. You took a joke seriously enough to write an entire paragraph in response to it.