Author Topic: Jacob Harrison-a challenge  (Read 1081 times)

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Online dpareja

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Re: Jacob Harrison-a challenge
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2018, 11:50:24 am »
That video admits that Christianity’s bases it’s evidence on history and scripture while Hinduism bases it on alleged individual personal revelation by practicing Yoga meaning that Christianity has a lot more historical evidence to back it up.
Does it now? So it bases its evidence on its own doctrine, and supposed events for which there is zero actual evidence that any historian, or really anyone who isn't a Christian apologist would take seriously, huh?

I have to say, this is one of very few instances where you're not wrong.

Besides, Hinduism has tantric sex. Give that a go with your second cousin and it'll make you a true believer in less than ten seconds.

Christianity does have historical evidence to back it up such as the existence of Ancient Israel and the fact that the vast majority of scholars agree that that there was a historical Jesus.

You know what it doesn't have? Any proof that Jesus was somehow divine.

And you know what it also doesn't have? Any evidence that a god exists.

It's funny how religious types will call for high standards of evidence when it comes to scientific claims (even if they move the goalposts a lot), but on a claim that is of absolutely fundamental importance they say you have to accept it on faith--as in, with absolutely no evidence whatsoever.

Fucking dishonest hacks.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: Jacob Harrison-a challenge
« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2018, 12:14:40 pm »
That video admits that Christianity’s bases it’s evidence on history and scripture while Hinduism bases it on alleged individual personal revelation by practicing Yoga meaning that Christianity has a lot more historical evidence to back it up.
Does it now? So it bases its evidence on its own doctrine, and supposed events for which there is zero actual evidence that any historian, or really anyone who isn't a Christian apologist would take seriously, huh?

I have to say, this is one of very few instances where you're not wrong.

Besides, Hinduism has tantric sex. Give that a go with your second cousin and it'll make you a true believer in less than ten seconds.

Christianity does have historical evidence to back it up such as the existence of Ancient Israel and the fact that the vast majority of scholars agree that that there was a historical Jesus.

You know what it doesn't have? Any proof that Jesus was somehow divine.

And you know what it also doesn't have? Any evidence that a god exists.

It's funny how religious types will call for high standards of evidence when it comes to scientific claims (even if they move the goalposts a lot), but on a claim that is of absolutely fundamental importance they say you have to accept it on faith--as in, with absolutely no evidence whatsoever.

Fucking dishonest hacks.

If Jesus wasn’t divine, than how come he claimed he was divine, and how did Christianity soread so quickly that there were Christians in Rome by the time of Nero. Something must have driven Christianity’s growth. O mighty atheist give thy alternate explanation of such phenomena.

https://www.bethinking.org/is-christianity-true/the-evidence-for-christianity
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 12:16:33 pm by Jacob Harrison »

Online dpareja

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Re: Jacob Harrison-a challenge
« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2018, 12:20:59 pm »
Anyone can claim they're divine, and people are easily fooled, especially in a time when information was far less freely available than it is now.

Sorry, but you'll need to find actual proof of God's existence (and not just a vague deistic God, which is already hard enough, but your God), and Jesus's divinity.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: Jacob Harrison-a challenge
« Reply #48 on: August 10, 2018, 12:27:00 pm »
Anyone can claim they're divine, and people are easily fooled, especially in a time when information was far less freely available than it is now.

Sorry, but you'll need to find actual proof of God's existence (and not just a vague deistic God, which is already hard enough, but your God), and Jesus's divinity.

But in order for people to believe that someone is God not just a magician, actual extreme miracles have to be performed proving that Jesus’s miracles were real and that he is God.

Online dpareja

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Re: Jacob Harrison-a challenge
« Reply #49 on: August 10, 2018, 12:31:11 pm »
Anyone can claim they're divine, and people are easily fooled, especially in a time when information was far less freely available than it is now.

Sorry, but you'll need to find actual proof of God's existence (and not just a vague deistic God, which is already hard enough, but your God), and Jesus's divinity.

But in order for people to believe that someone is God not just a magician, actual extreme miracles have to be performed proving that Jesus’s miracles were real and that he is God.



Or, they grew in the telling.

But provide evidence of God (and being that the existence of God would be more significant than any other discovery in human history, the standard of proof is higher than that for other propositions) or everything you're saying is empty and vacuous.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Art Vandelay

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Re: Jacob Harrison-a challenge
« Reply #50 on: August 10, 2018, 12:48:22 pm »
Christianity does have historical evidence to back it up such as the existence of Ancient Israel and the fact that the vast majority of scholars agree that that there was a historical Jesus.
Right, because the existence of a bronze age culture totally points to the existence of a magical man in the sky. As for scholars, their word itself is meaningless. What's actually important is the evidence that their word is supposedly based on. In the case of Jesus, well, the closest thing to a primary source for his existence is the gospels, which claim to be first person accounts despite them being dated long after his supposed death. But I'm sure you're aware, seeing as we've gone over this before.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: Jacob Harrison-a challenge
« Reply #51 on: August 10, 2018, 01:24:21 pm »
Anyone can claim they're divine, and people are easily fooled, especially in a time when information was far less freely available than it is now.

Sorry, but you'll need to find actual proof of God's existence (and not just a vague deistic God, which is already hard enough, but your God), and Jesus's divinity.

But in order for people to believe that someone is God not just a magician, actual extreme miracles have to be performed proving that Jesus’s miracles were real and that he is God.



Or, they grew in the telling.

But provide evidence of God (and being that the existence of God would be more significant than any other discovery in human history, the standard of proof is higher than that for other propositions) or everything you're saying is empty and vacuous.

But how did the tales originate? And Howe did it grow so fast if it was not based on real events that happened?

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: Jacob Harrison-a challenge
« Reply #52 on: August 10, 2018, 01:27:07 pm »
Christianity does have historical evidence to back it up such as the existence of Ancient Israel and the fact that the vast majority of scholars agree that that there was a historical Jesus.
Right, because the existence of a bronze age culture totally points to the existence of a magical man in the sky. As for scholars, their word itself is meaningless. What's actually important is the evidence that their word is supposedly based on. In the case of Jesus, well, the closest thing to a primary source for his existence is the gospels, which claim to be first person accounts despite them being dated long after his supposed death. But I'm sure you're aware, seeing as we've gone over this before.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

Online dpareja

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Re: Jacob Harrison-a challenge
« Reply #53 on: August 10, 2018, 01:33:37 pm »
Jesus may well be a historical figure. It's his divinity for which I demand solid evidence.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: Jacob Harrison-a challenge
« Reply #54 on: August 10, 2018, 01:48:01 pm »
Jesus may well be a historical figure. It's his divinity for which I demand solid evidence.

And I provided the solid evidence in earlier comments using common sense. If he was not divine, but claimed to be divine, how did he get so many people to believe he was God, and rose from the dead? A mere mortal can’t get so many people in a short period of time to believe all of that.

https://www.bethinking.org/is-christianity-true/the-evidence-for-christianity

Online dpareja

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Re: Jacob Harrison-a challenge
« Reply #55 on: August 10, 2018, 02:06:45 pm »
COMMON SENSE IS NOT SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE YOU DENSE FUCK!
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Skybison

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Re: Jacob Harrison-a challenge
« Reply #56 on: August 10, 2018, 02:07:22 pm »
Jacob we've been over this.  Jesus probably didn't think he was God.  Early Christians mostly didn't think he was, and Paul Mark Matthew and Luke never called him that.  That idea evolved later.

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Re: Jacob Harrison-a challenge
« Reply #57 on: August 10, 2018, 03:59:23 pm »
If Mohammed was not actually the prophet of Allah as depicted in the Qu'ran, then how did he get so many people to believe he was?

But we've gone over this before. You'll offer some platitude about Muslims converting by the sword, despite two problems with that explanation:
1. Mohammed would have had to convince an initial group that he was a divine prophet to get started, which would surely have been impossible if he wasn't actually the prophet of Allah.
2. Islam spread just as quickly by trade, to the east, as it did to the west by the sword, and much more quickly than Christianity did, thus establishing Islam as the one true religion.
There is no plague more evil and vile to watch spread than the plague that is the Von Habsburg dynasty.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: Jacob Harrison-a challenge
« Reply #58 on: August 10, 2018, 06:10:52 pm »
Jacob we've been over this.  Jesus probably didn't think he was God.  Early Christians mostly didn't think he was, and Paul Mark Matthew and Luke never called him that.  That idea evolved later.

Yes we have. And remember I debunked those claims.

The authors of the Gospels wrote about different specific parts of Jesus’s life and different specific information about Jesus’s life. It was a division of tasks.

That has nothing to do with my point.  The gospels still have very different ideas of who Jesus was, growing more divine over time.  Working backwards from that we find that the original Christians believed Jesus was not God.

They were not different ideas, they were just different pieces of information. Just because the other authors wrote son of God, does not mean that they didn’t believe that he was also God, they just used Son of God as a phrase knowing that the readers already knew that Jesus is God.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Jacob Harrison-a challenge
« Reply #59 on: August 10, 2018, 06:41:33 pm »
Jacob, the reason you believe your own arguments is that they aren't arguments per se but rather strategies to reinforce your own pre existing belief. Your historicity of the Gospels argument boils down to "at least it's history." You could make the same argument for aliens in area 51. It don't make it necessarily so.

Your waving the cudgel of hell at us doesn't touch the sides because it's a silly threat to people who don't accept the whole package, or even just your version of it. It's there to keep believers in line, doesn't mean shit to me.

You'd be a terrible salesman Jacob, you aren't selling a product to yourself, you have to aim your pitch at your audience.