Author Topic: Amazon is aiding in mass deportations  (Read 413 times)

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Offline dpareja

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Amazon is aiding in mass deportations
« on: July 29, 2018, 10:25:45 pm »
https://truthout.org/audio/how-amazon-cooperates-with-trumps-deportation-machine/

Amazon is working with US Immigration and Customs Enforcement to aid in deportations, and at least one group, Movimiento Cosecha, is calling for a complete boycott of them.
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It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

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Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

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Re: Amazon is aiding in mass deportations
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2018, 01:05:53 am »
So this is more of the old "deporting illegal immigrants is racist" chestnut that you Americanos are so fond of, is it?

Offline dpareja

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Re: Amazon is aiding in mass deportations
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2018, 02:20:12 am »
Quote
The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws for the peace, order, and good government pf the Commonwealth with respect to:...

The people of any race, other than the aboriginal race in any State, for whom it is deemed necessary to make special laws

Quote from: Edmund Barton
...I entertain a strong opinion that the moment the Commonwealth obtains any legislative power at all it should have the power to regulate the affairs of the people of coloured or inferior races who are in the Commonwealth.

http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22constitution%2Fconventions%2F1898-1096%22

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[This sub-section] enables the Parliament to deal with the people of any alien race after they have entered the Commonwealth; to localise them within defined areas, to restrict their migration, to confine them to certain occupations, or to give them special protection and secure their return after a certain period to the country whence they came.

https://archive.org/stream/annotatedconstit00quicuoft#page/622

EDIT: Oh, and Barton was the first Prime Minister of Australia. So, yeah.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2018, 02:22:20 am by dpareja »
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Amazon is aiding in mass deportations
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2018, 02:25:58 am »
So this is more of the old "deporting illegal immigrants is racist" chestnut that you Americanos are so fond of, is it?
All depends on if there is racist intent behind it. The majority of illegal immigrants in Australia who get the short end of the stick are asylum seekers, nonwhite and New Zealanders many of whom are Maori, Tongan and Samoan-also non white.

Offline dpareja

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Re: Amazon is aiding in mass deportations
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2018, 02:30:57 am »
So this is more of the old "deporting illegal immigrants is racist" chestnut that you Americanos are so fond of, is it?
All depends on if there is racist intent behind it. The majority of illegal immigrants in Australia who get the short end of the stick are asylum seekers, nonwhite and New Zealanders many of whom are Maori, Tongan and Samoan-also non white.

It's almost like there's still some "White Australia" mentality lingering...
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Online Art Vandelay

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Re: Amazon is aiding in mass deportations
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2018, 02:47:09 am »
Quote
The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws for the peace, order, and good government pf the Commonwealth with respect to:...

The people of any race, other than the aboriginal race in any State, for whom it is deemed necessary to make special laws

Quote from: Edmund Barton
...I entertain a strong opinion that the moment the Commonwealth obtains any legislative power at all it should have the power to regulate the affairs of the people of coloured or inferior races who are in the Commonwealth.

http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22constitution%2Fconventions%2F1898-1096%22

Quote from: Quick and Garran
[This sub-section] enables the Parliament to deal with the people of any alien race after they have entered the Commonwealth; to localise them within defined areas, to restrict their migration, to confine them to certain occupations, or to give them special protection and secure their return after a certain period to the country whence they came.

https://archive.org/stream/annotatedconstit00quicuoft#page/622

EDIT: Oh, and Barton was the first Prime Minister of Australia. So, yeah.
Specifically banning certain ethnic groups or herding them into ghettoes is not the same thing as deporting people who choose to cross the border and seek work in the country without a valid visa. That's a truly ridiculous false equivalence, if I may say so myself.
All depends on if there is racist intent behind it. The majority of illegal immigrants in Australia who get the short end of the stick are asylum seekers, nonwhite and New Zealanders many of whom are Maori, Tongan and Samoan-also non white.
Okay, so? Just because a group is majority non-white does not mean it's racist not to exempt them from the law, which is more or less my original point.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2018, 04:03:21 am by Art Vandelay »

Offline davedan

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Re: Amazon is aiding in mass deportations
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2018, 03:57:35 am »
No and there's nothing racist about turning back boats with Rohingya on them or interring them in Manus while at the same time suggesting we should offer refugee status to white South African farmers....

Offline dpareja

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Re: Amazon is aiding in mass deportations
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2018, 04:27:18 am »
No and there's nothing racist about turning back boats with Rohingya on them or interring them in Manus while at the same time suggesting we should offer refugee status to white South African farmers....

And banning people who have never lived anywhere but in Australia from serving in Parliament just because they have another citizenship that they might have had no idea they had and that they might not be able to get rid of (see: US citizenship) doesn't make them second-class citizens at all, no sir.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline davedan

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Re: Amazon is aiding in mass deportations
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2018, 05:38:44 am »
No and there's nothing racist about turning back boats with Rohingya on them or interring them in Manus while at the same time suggesting we should offer refugee status to white South African farmers....

And banning people who have never lived anywhere but in Australia from serving in Parliament just because they have another citizenship that they might have had no idea they had and that they might not be able to get rid of (see: US citizenship) doesn't make them second-class citizens at all, no sir.

Ok that's bullshit Dpareja - the constitution has been the same throughout - if you are going to run for parliament it makes sense to go know whether you're eligible. And all those people who've been removed have had the opportunity to renounce their foreign citizenship and run again.

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Re: Amazon is aiding in mass deportations
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2018, 06:25:08 am »
No and there's nothing racist about turning back boats with Rohingya on them or interring them in Manus while at the same time suggesting we should offer refugee status to white South African farmers....
Again, we're not talking about refugees, we're talking about deporting people who cross the border illegally. As I said before, false equivalence.

Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Amazon is aiding in mass deportations
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2018, 08:03:35 am »
The situation is that there are millions of people who live in US and the only illegal thing they have made is the misdemeanor of crossing the border. They have families and children. A typical "illegal" immigrant works, pays taxes and is statistically less likely to commit a crime than a "legal" resident in the same economic group. Since they are not posing a risk and have committed only a minor infraction with their illegal entry a strict enforcement of the immigration law in these communities actually causes more harm than good. From the immigrants' (and their families') point of view they end up disproportionally punished by having their lives destroyed and from the society's perspective resources that could be used to improve lives are used to destroy them.

If "border control" was just turning someone back from the border when they try to cross it illegally it would be another matter altogether. The only reason these people are seen as a serious problem is because they are generally brown and speak funny so their perspective doesn't matter. The letter of the law and racial anxiety are more important than their humanity. The Democratic party tries to adjust the laws to solve this situation, the Republican party not only fights this, it does its best to enforce the laws as inhumanely as possible.

There are also other practical matters like more illegal immigrants leaving US than entering recently and ignoring the larger group of people who simply overstay their visas that reveal what is the actual motive behind the need to tighten the "border control". Demanding obscene amounts of resources to solve something that is either a minor problem or a no problem at all depending on your perspective cannot be justified by any other logic than racial anxiety making issue seem disproportionately important.

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Re: Amazon is aiding in mass deportations
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2018, 09:52:23 am »
Yes indeed, an illegal immigrant typically works and pays taxes (strictly sales tax and the like, mind. Obviously they don't pay income tax). They tend to work unskilled jobs for greatly reduced pay, benefits and in substandard conditions. Jobs which would otherwise be worked by a legal worker for at least minimum wages, benefits and conditions, and who would be paying income tax on those higher wages. That is not, in fact, a good thing for society. For rich people, yes, obviously it's great for them, not so much for everyone else, especially the poor. Just look at unskilled farm work, for example. It's almost exclusively done for an absolute pittance by illegal immigrants, while the rural poor are all chronically unemployed. Good for the land owners, far less good for society overall. On a slightly related note, perhaps this, and not "being brown and speaking funny" is why poor rural Americans seem to hate illegal immigrants as much as they do. Just something to consider. But no, surely it's all about race, right?

Furthermore, all countries have limited infrastructure, employment opportunities, housing and the like, and therefore controlling their own immigrant intake is in their best interests. This is not "racist", it's simply good governance. As before, the US having little to no control over its own borders is not a good thing for society. For rich people, yes, they certainly benefit. Society, not so much.

As for the illegals themselves. Well, if you wish to move to a foreign country, go through the proper channels. If the country you wish to move to does not want you, move elsewhere. But don't cross the border illegally, build a new life for yourself, then act surprised when your past catches up with you and you end up deported. I mean really now, how the fuck else was that ever going to end?

Online Askold

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Re: Amazon is aiding in mass deportations
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2018, 10:05:31 am »
Technically they are going through proper channels. They have to be in USA to apply for asylum and since entering USA without a permit is merely a misdemeanor or something this is basically how people are supposed to do it.
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Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Amazon is aiding in mass deportations
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2018, 01:28:04 pm »
Yes indeed, an illegal immigrant typically works and pays taxes (strictly sales tax and the like, mind. Obviously they don't pay income tax). They tend to work unskilled jobs for greatly reduced pay, benefits and in substandard conditions. Jobs which would otherwise be worked by a legal worker for at least minimum wages, benefits and conditions, and who would be paying income tax on those higher wages. That is not, in fact, a good thing for society. For rich people, yes, obviously it's great for them, not so much for everyone else, especially the poor. Just look at unskilled farm work, for example. It's almost exclusively done for an absolute pittance by illegal immigrants, while the rural poor are all chronically unemployed. Good for the land owners, far less good for society overall. On a slightly related note, perhaps this, and not "being brown and speaking funny" is why poor rural Americans seem to hate illegal immigrants as much as they do. Just something to consider. But no, surely it's all about race, right?

Furthermore, all countries have limited infrastructure, employment opportunities, housing and the like, and therefore controlling their own immigrant intake is in their best interests. This is not "racist", it's simply good governance. As before, the US having little to no control over its own borders is not a good thing for society. For rich people, yes, they certainly benefit. Society, not so much.

As for the illegals themselves. Well, if you wish to move to a foreign country, go through the proper channels. If the country you wish to move to does not want you, move elsewhere. But don't cross the border illegally, build a new life for yourself, then act surprised when your past catches up with you and you end up deported. I mean really now, how the fuck else was that ever going to end?

If you get caught stealing in Saudi-Arabia and get your hand chopped off you should have known better. What else can the authorities do, they have a law to follow.

A country has a duty to all the people within its borders to treat them humanely. This doesn't mean that everyone has to have the same rights as a citizen but it does mean protection from a disproportionate punishment. If the situation is such that following the letter of a law has a disproportionately harmful effect then the law and/or how it's applied must be adjusted.

If you want to decrease illegal immigration you can take actions such as enforcing living wages and punishing employers who take advantage of the illegal immigrants by paying them lower wages. You can also help stabilize the economical and humanitarian situation in the countries they are coming from. Unfortunately when it comes to geopolitics US is usually doing the opposite.

Can I say for sure that everyone who wants more border control is racist? No. What I can say that the language used to promote it plays on racism, takes advantage of racist fear of "browning" of America and dehumanizes and racializes the illegal immigrants. I can't and don't need to go inside everyone's head. If you ignore a person's humanity to such a degree that you justify destroying their life for a minor infraction they have committed instead of changing the system to cause least harm then your values need reexamining.

Or, you can just shoot on sight anyone trying to cross the border illegally. They should know better than to try, after all.

Offline Svata

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Re: Amazon is aiding in mass deportations
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2018, 01:36:49 pm »
Yes indeed, an illegal immigrant typically works and pays taxes (strictly sales tax and the like, mind. Obviously they don't pay income tax). They tend to work unskilled jobs for greatly reduced pay, benefits and in substandard conditions. Jobs which would otherwise be worked by a legal worker for at least minimum wages, benefits and conditions, and who would be paying income tax on those higher wages. That is not, in fact, a good thing for society. For rich people, yes, obviously it's great for them, not so much for everyone else, especially the poor. Just look at unskilled farm work, for example. It's almost exclusively done for an absolute pittance by illegal immigrants, while the rural poor are all chronically unemployed. Good for the land owners, far less good for society overall. On a slightly related note, perhaps this, and not "being brown and speaking funny" is why poor rural Americans seem to hate illegal immigrants as much as they do. Just something to consider. But no, surely it's all about race, right?

Furthermore, all countries have limited infrastructure, employment opportunities, housing and the like, and therefore controlling their own immigrant intake is in their best interests. This is not "racist", it's simply good governance. As before, the US having little to no control over its own borders is not a good thing for society. For rich people, yes, they certainly benefit. Society, not so much.

As for the illegals themselves. Well, if you wish to move to a foreign country, go through the proper channels. If the country you wish to move to does not want you, move elsewhere. But don't cross the border illegally, build a new life for yourself, then act surprised when your past catches up with you and you end up deported. I mean really now, how the fuck else was that ever going to end?


Believe it or not, many DO pay income tax, at least ones in the US. The IRS has ways of paying income taxes without having to give PII to ICE or other, similar organizations. And given that last time we passed any sort of amnesty, they had to pay back-taxes they owed, lots who are hoping for that to happen again find it easier to just stay current.
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