Author Topic: More proof that Christianity is true  (Read 229 times)

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Offline niam2023

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Re: More proof that Christianity is true
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2018, 09:01:52 pm »
I'll be plainly honest, you're more fun when you're talking about parallel universes.
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Offline Skybison

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Re: More proof that Christianity is true
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2018, 09:03:13 pm »
1. But why would she think that she needed to die to atone for others since she wasn’t Jesus?

BECAUSE SHE WAS MENTALLY ILL STUPID FUCKING FUCK.  What on earth makes that less likely then possession? 


Quote
2. She was sitting up and then collapsed back after the Exorcism was performed indicating that a demon was driven from her. And before the demon was driven out, notice how she was freaking out the most when the cross was put on her. That also indicates that she was possessed.

She was freaking out because she was being pushed down by screaming people, like you would be.  Falling down after an exhausting and frightening experience does not mean she was possessed.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: More proof that Christianity is true
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2018, 01:21:18 am »
Jacob, since Wikipedia is your go to font of all knowledge let's just skip to the section on what scientists (read people who know what the fuck they're talking about) know about the subject.

On Demonic possession:

Quote
According to Augustine Calmet, several obsessions and possessions noted in the New Testament were simple maladies or fantastic fallacies which made it believed that such persons were possessed by the devil. The ignorance of the people maintained this prejudice, and their being totally unacquainted with physicians and medicine served to strengthen such ideas.[A 2]

Those who profess a belief in demonic possession have sometimes ascribed to possession the symptoms associated with physical or mental illnesses, such as hysteria, mania, psychosis,[34] Tourette syndrome, epilepsy,[35] schizophrenia,[36] conversion disorder or dissociative identity disorder.[37] It is also not uncommon to ascribe the experience of sleep paralysis to demonic possession, although it's not a physical or mental illness.[38] Demonic possession is not a valid psychiatric or medical diagnosis recognized by either the DSM-5 or the ICD-10.[39]

Additionally, there is a form of monomania called demonomania or demonopathy in which the patient believes that he or she is possessed by one or more demons.[40]
.

On Spirit possession:

Quote
Scientific views
Cultural anthropology
The anthropologist I.M. Lewis noted that women are more likely to be involved in spirit possession cults than men are, and postulated that such cults act as a means of compensation for their exclusion from other spheres within their respective cultures.[4]

Physical anthropology
Anthropologists Alice B. Kehoe and Dody H. Giletti argued that the reason that women are more commonly seen in Afro-Eurasian spirit possession cults is because of deficiencies in thiamine, tryptophan-niacin, calcium, and vitamin D. They argued that a combination of poverty and food taboos cause this problem, and that it is exacerbated by the strains of pregnancy and lactation. They postulated that the involuntary symptoms of these deficiencies affecting their nervous systems have been institutionalized as spirit possession.[3]

Psychology
Spirit possession is not recognized as a psychiatric or medical diagnosis by the DSM-IV or the ICD-10. People alleged to be possessed by spirits sometimes exhibit symptoms similar to those associated with mental illnesses such as psychosis, hysteria, mania, Tourette's syndrome, epilepsy, schizophrenia, or dissociative identity disorder,[47][48][49] including involuntary, uncensored behavior, and an extra-human, extra-social aspect to the individual's actions.[50] In cases of dissociative identity disorder in which the alter personality is questioned as to its identity, 29 percent are reported to identify themselves as demons.[51] Physicians regard this as a mental disease called demonomania or demonopathy, a monomania in which the patient believes that he or she is possessed by one or more demons.[52]

To wit, possession is a delusion or impression of a delusion caused by psychological, psychiatric, physiological, dietary and cultural factors. It is a cultural artifact like "race", it has no independent measurable meaning. It is a way of describing something when, for cultural, medical or other reasons people don't know (or don't want to know) what the fuck is wrong with someone when they're acting weird.

Since you accept content from Wikipedia as being true, this should be the end of the matter. Now stop babbling about supernatural possession because it isn't a thing FFS!
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 01:23:18 am by Tolpuddle Martyr »

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: More proof that Christianity is true
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2018, 11:03:12 am »
Jacob, since Wikipedia is your go to font of all knowledge let's just skip to the section on what scientists (read people who know what the fuck they're talking about) know about the subject.

On Demonic possession:

Quote
According to Augustine Calmet, several obsessions and possessions noted in the New Testament were simple maladies or fantastic fallacies which made it believed that such persons were possessed by the devil. The ignorance of the people maintained this prejudice, and their being totally unacquainted with physicians and medicine served to strengthen such ideas.[A 2]

Those who profess a belief in demonic possession have sometimes ascribed to possession the symptoms associated with physical or mental illnesses, such as hysteria, mania, psychosis,[34] Tourette syndrome, epilepsy,[35] schizophrenia,[36] conversion disorder or dissociative identity disorder.[37] It is also not uncommon to ascribe the experience of sleep paralysis to demonic possession, although it's not a physical or mental illness.[38] Demonic possession is not a valid psychiatric or medical diagnosis recognized by either the DSM-5 or the ICD-10.[39]

Additionally, there is a form of monomania called demonomania or demonopathy in which the patient believes that he or she is possessed by one or more demons.[40]
.

On Spirit possession:

Quote
Scientific views
Cultural anthropology
The anthropologist I.M. Lewis noted that women are more likely to be involved in spirit possession cults than men are, and postulated that such cults act as a means of compensation for their exclusion from other spheres within their respective cultures.[4]

Physical anthropology
Anthropologists Alice B. Kehoe and Dody H. Giletti argued that the reason that women are more commonly seen in Afro-Eurasian spirit possession cults is because of deficiencies in thiamine, tryptophan-niacin, calcium, and vitamin D. They argued that a combination of poverty and food taboos cause this problem, and that it is exacerbated by the strains of pregnancy and lactation. They postulated that the involuntary symptoms of these deficiencies affecting their nervous systems have been institutionalized as spirit possession.[3]

Psychology
Spirit possession is not recognized as a psychiatric or medical diagnosis by the DSM-IV or the ICD-10. People alleged to be possessed by spirits sometimes exhibit symptoms similar to those associated with mental illnesses such as psychosis, hysteria, mania, Tourette's syndrome, epilepsy, schizophrenia, or dissociative identity disorder,[47][48][49] including involuntary, uncensored behavior, and an extra-human, extra-social aspect to the individual's actions.[50] In cases of dissociative identity disorder in which the alter personality is questioned as to its identity, 29 percent are reported to identify themselves as demons.[51] Physicians regard this as a mental disease called demonomania or demonopathy, a monomania in which the patient believes that he or she is possessed by one or more demons.[52]

To wit, possession is a delusion or impression of a delusion caused by psychological, psychiatric, physiological, dietary and cultural factors. It is a cultural artifact like "race", it has no independent measurable meaning. It is a way of describing something when, for cultural, medical or other reasons people don't know (or don't want to know) what the fuck is wrong with someone when they're acting weird.

Since you accept content from Wikipedia as being true, this should be the end of the matter. Now stop babbling about supernatural possession because it isn't a thing FFS!

But psychologists can never explain the scientific cause of demonomania/demonopathy. Why would people have a demon as part of their dissociative identity disorder.

Also here is another video that proves that demons are real proving that Christianity is real. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6piZMcTZic

Offline dpareja

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Re: More proof that Christianity is true
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2018, 11:10:51 am »
Demons being real would not prove, in any way, the truth of Christianity.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

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Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Art Vandelay

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Re: More proof that Christianity is true
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2018, 11:35:24 am »
Furthermore, even if you are correct in that there isn't a more logical explanation for possession (there is, obviously, but let's pretend for a moment that it's not for the sake of argument), that doesn't prove an entire religion. Much like anything else, Christianity needs positive proof of its specific claims, not evidence that a competing hypothesis is false. Proving an alternative false without proving your thing means we don't know the answer, not we know that your  thing is correct. With this in mind, to prove Christianity is true, you need to objectively prove that a deity as described in the bible exists, is the only one of its kind, created the entire universe, chooses whether or not to have people tortured for all eternity according to the criteria laid out in the Bible, and last but not least, had a human avatar of itself nailed to a couple of planks by a regional superpower just over 2000 years ago.

Again, disproving contradictory ideas is nowhere near good enough for us to accept Christianity. You need to present objective evidence that Christianity is true (not just something vaguely supernatural, but specifically Christianity).

Of course, you're not going to do that. Not least because you can't, because no such evidence exists in the first place. Even Christians and other religoes are largely aware of this. That's why they never go that route in the first place, and instead just appeal to emotions. Hence why they try to lay claim to morality, or convince people that blind faith for the sake of blind faith in unsubstantiated bullshit is a somehow a good thing that means you're totally a good person. But no, if you think you can succeed where religious nutjobs of all flavours have tried and failed for all of recorded human history, I for one would love to hear it.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: More proof that Christianity is true
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2018, 12:42:12 pm »
Furthermore, even if you are correct in that there isn't a more logical explanation for possession (there is, obviously, but let's pretend for a moment that it's not for the sake of argument), that doesn't prove an entire religion. Much like anything else, Christianity needs positive proof of its specific claims, not evidence that a competing hypothesis is false. Proving an alternative false without proving your thing means we don't know the answer, not we know that your  thing is correct. With this in mind, to prove Christianity is true, you need to objectively prove that a deity as described in the bible exists, is the only one of its kind, created the entire universe, chooses whether or not to have people tortured for all eternity according to the criteria laid out in the Bible, and last but not least, had a human avatar of itself nailed to a couple of planks by a regional superpower just over 2000 years ago.

Again, disproving contradictory ideas is nowhere near good enough for us to accept Christianity. You need to present objective evidence that Christianity is true (not just something vaguely supernatural, but specifically Christianity).

Of course, you're not going to do that. Not least because you can't, because no such evidence exists in the first place. Even Christians and other religoes are largely aware of this. That's why they never go that route in the first place, and instead just appeal to emotions. Hence why they try to lay claim to morality, or convince people that blind faith for the sake of blind faith in unsubstantiated bullshit is a somehow a good thing that means you're totally a good person. But no, if you think you can succeed where religious nutjobs of all flavours have tried and failed for all of recorded human history, I for one would love to hear it.

In cases of possession, the possessed people often freak out the mosts when the exorcists say "In the name of the lord Jesus Christ, I command you to leave the person's body" indicating that Jesus is real and that demons fear him.

Offline dpareja

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Re: More proof that Christianity is true
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2018, 12:57:41 pm »
OK, now you're just pathetic.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Art Vandelay

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Re: More proof that Christianity is true
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2018, 01:31:48 pm »
Swing and a miss.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: More proof that Christianity is true
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2018, 05:05:19 pm »
Furthermore, even if you are correct in that there isn't a more logical explanation for possession (there is, obviously, but let's pretend for a moment that it's not for the sake of argument), that doesn't prove an entire religion. Much like anything else, Christianity needs positive proof of its specific claims, not evidence that a competing hypothesis is false. Proving an alternative false without proving your thing means we don't know the answer, not we know that your  thing is correct. With this in mind, to prove Christianity is true, you need to objectively prove that a deity as described in the bible exists, is the only one of its kind, created the entire universe, chooses whether or not to have people tortured for all eternity according to the criteria laid out in the Bible, and last but not least, had a human avatar of itself nailed to a couple of planks by a regional superpower just over 2000 years ago.

Again, disproving contradictory ideas is nowhere near good enough for us to accept Christianity. You need to present objective evidence that Christianity is true (not just something vaguely supernatural, but specifically Christianity).

Of course, you're not going to do that. Not least because you can't, because no such evidence exists in the first place. Even Christians and other religoes are largely aware of this. That's why they never go that route in the first place, and instead just appeal to emotions. Hence why they try to lay claim to morality, or convince people that blind faith for the sake of blind faith in unsubstantiated bullshit is a somehow a good thing that means you're totally a good person. But no, if you think you can succeed where religious nutjobs of all flavours have tried and failed for all of recorded human history, I for one would love to hear it.

In cases of possession, the possessed people often freak out the mosts when the exorcists say "In the name of the lord Jesus Christ, I command you to leave the person's body" indicating that Jesus is real and that demons fear him.
Yeeeaaahhh, gimme anybody suffering a panic attack, schizophrenic episode or epileptic fit and yes, having some nutter come in and start screaming "the power of Christ Compels You" will make things worse, possibly kill them, if only because you'll be denying them the help they actually need.

You have proven that the ignorant and superstitious can make bad things worse, well done Jakey boy!