Author Topic: The Ultimate Question  (Read 507 times)

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Offline dpareja

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2018, 09:12:46 pm »
Go and read the entire article, that's hardly the only counter-argument.

And why would a god be so vain as to desire worship?
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2018, 09:30:19 pm »
I see that Jakey-boy hasn't said a thing about my supposition that God only cares about a species twenty billion light-years away. Clearly this means that he's having serious doubts about whether he's been wrong all this time.

Because of that is true, then I have nothing to lose. But if Christianity is true, and you don’t accept it, then you have eternity to lose.
Here's the thing, it's not the grudging acceptance of a victim of crime handing his wallet to a mugger or the confused mental state of someone with Stockholm syndrome that gets you through the pearly gates according to that schema, it's true dedication and love. Even if it were true (it's not) I couldn't respect a being asking for my love on those terms I'd always secretly or openly hate them. No deal, you don't get love by showing me the instruments of torture!

So you believe in a God dumb enough not to see through the fact that we'd be worshipping it (or going through the motions of worship) because of some probabilistic notion and not because we actually do believe?

He will see that you wish to be saved and will eventually make you believe once he answers your prayers.

“Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and you shall find: knock, and it shall be opened to you.” Mathew 7:7

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2018, 09:36:35 pm »
Go and read the entire article, that's hardly the only counter-argument.

And why would a god be so vain as to desire worship?

Because he created us making him our master and we owe him praise for creating us and sending his son to die for our sins.

Offline dpareja

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2018, 10:26:21 pm »
So if I have a child, then, having had a part in said child's creation, am I that child's master?
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2018, 10:38:22 pm »
Go and read the entire article, that's hardly the only counter-argument.

And why would a god be so vain as to desire worship?

Because he created us making him our master and we owe him praise for creating us and sending his son to die for our sins.
Hey Jacob, direct question if a mum sets her kids on fire for not praising her is she right to do so or a psychotic bitch?

Offline dpareja

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Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Skybison

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2018, 01:26:18 am »
But Jacob, in the bible Jesus clearly says that if you go to Heaven or Hell is determined by whether or not you help others when they need it, not by what you believed:

Quote
Matthew 25:31-46 New International Version (NIV)
The Sheep and the Goats
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Come on Jacob, you going to tell me the Good Samaritan went to hell?  Cause he wasn't a Christian or even a Jew.

Since Jesus said that the afterlife is about whether or not you feed the hungry, welcome the stranger and care for the sick, that brings politics into it.  In the modern world the most effective way to feed the hungry and care for the sick is with big centralized government programs supported by the democrats, while the republicans oppose these programs.  Likewise the democrats welcome strangers into the US and try to help them, while republicans want to build walls and throw children in prison camps.

This suggests that Pascal's wager has it wrong, and should really look like this:

                      God ExistsGod Doesn't Exist
Vote DemocratEternal RewardMaybe lost money but helped others
Vote RepublicanEternal PunishmentMaybe saved some money but hurt others

So even if you don't care about helping other people, shouldn't you vote democratic anyway Jacob, just to be on the safe side?  Because if Jesus is God and the bible is his word, then people who vote for Trump are going to hell.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 01:56:45 am by Skybison »

Offline dpareja

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2018, 03:08:51 am »
People who vote Democrat support killing babies.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Art Vandelay

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2018, 03:27:25 am »
People who support raping babies, on the other hand, are denied the political representation that is their democratic right.

Offline Svata

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2018, 05:18:00 am »
Go and read the entire article, that's hardly the only counter-argument.

And why would a god be so vain as to desire worship?

Because he created us making him our master and we owe him praise for creating us and sending his son to die for our sins.


That's, uh, kind of an asshole thing to do.
"Politician" is the occupational equivalent of "Florida".

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2018, 05:52:59 am »
Go and read the entire article, that's hardly the only counter-argument.

And why would a god be so vain as to desire worship?

Because he created us making him our master and we owe him praise for creating us and sending his son to die for our sins.
Hey Jacob, direct question if a mum sets her kids on fire for not praising her is she right to do so or a psychotic bitch?

She is not right to do so because she is only a minor creator. God is the creator of humanity and the entire universe.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #41 on: August 27, 2018, 06:00:54 am »
But Jacob, in the bible Jesus clearly says that if you go to Heaven or Hell is determined by whether or not you help others when they need it, not by what you believed:

Quote
Matthew 25:31-46 New International Version (NIV)
The Sheep and the Goats
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Come on Jacob, you going to tell me the Good Samaritan went to hell?  Cause he wasn't a Christian or even a Jew.

Since Jesus said that the afterlife is about whether or not you feed the hungry, welcome the stranger and care for the sick, that brings politics into it.  In the modern world the most effective way to feed the hungry and care for the sick is with big centralized government programs supported by the democrats, while the republicans oppose these programs.  Likewise the democrats welcome strangers into the US and try to help them, while republicans want to build walls and throw children in prison camps.

This suggests that Pascal's wager has it wrong, and should really look like this:

                      God ExistsGod Doesn't Exist
Vote DemocratEternal RewardMaybe lost money but helped others
Vote RepublicanEternal PunishmentMaybe saved some money but hurt others

So even if you don't care about helping other people, shouldn't you vote democratic anyway Jacob, just to be on the safe side?  Because if Jesus is God and the bible is his word, then people who vote for Trump are going to hell.

1. It is true that salvation comes from faith and good works. Private charities are a more effective way of helping the poor. And the sick will still be taken care of under Trumpcare. In fact Trump is doing a better job taking care of the poor because the unemployment rate is low, the economy is doing well, and he is trying to preserve American industries and keep jobs in America.

2. Strangers are welcome if they come here LEGALLY, either by legal immigration or legal asylum status. Not enforcing the immigration laws makes it worse for America's poor because the illegal immigrants take their jobs.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #42 on: August 27, 2018, 06:01:36 am »
People who vote Democrat support killing babies.

Exactly.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #43 on: August 27, 2018, 07:59:04 am »
Go and read the entire article, that's hardly the only counter-argument.

And why would a god be so vain as to desire worship?

Because he created us making him our master and we owe him praise for creating us and sending his son to die for our sins.
Hey Jacob, direct question if a mum sets her kids on fire for not praising her is she right to do so or a psychotic bitch?

She is not right to do so because she is only a minor creator. God is the creator of humanity and the entire universe.
Tbe old "hidden minor creator clause" ooh, you most creative and clever debater. Truly, we are truly overwhelmed by your massive powers of debate.

Offline KingOfRhye

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Re: The Ultimate Question
« Reply #44 on: August 27, 2018, 08:37:19 am »
"The ultimate question"?  I already know the answer to that....

42.