Author Topic: Why the Galactic Empire and the First Order are the good guys in Star Wars  (Read 352 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Jacob Harrison

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1440
  • Gender: Male
  • The person who discovered England's true monarch
The Star Wars movies trick you into believing that the Jedi and the Rebels are the good guys, and the Empire and First Order are the bad guys. However the exact opposite is true.

First of all, the Galactic Empire brought order to the galaxy. If you watch the prequels, you see how ineffective the government of the Old Republic is. When planet Naboo was invaded by the Trade Federation, they did not take action and needed to set up a committee to investigate whether Naboo was even invaded. They also were ineffective at enforcing their authority in the Outer Rim, and those planets were run by gangsters.

However, the hero Palpatine ended the Naboo crisis by being a double agent, getting the Trade Federation to invade Naboo under the persona of Darth Sidious so that he would be able to get a vote of no confidence in the senate that removed Chancellor Valorum and got himself elected Chancellor so that the Republic would be run by a more effective leader.

Later he was able to make the government more effective in Attack of the Clones by getting the senate to give him Emergency Powers and by having clone army created to help the Republic defeat the Separatists in the Clone Wars. By being a double agent as Darth Sidious, infiltrating the Separatists by having his apprentice Count Dooku become leader of the Separatists, he was able to get Anakin to finally defeat them on Mustafar bringing an end to the Clone Wars.

However you may argue that Order 66 was bad because the Jedi were killed. But Order 66 was justified because the Jedi were a threat to the stability of the Galaxy. Order 66 was a reaction to Jedi commiting high treason, attempting to assasinate Palpatine, the legally elected Chancellor.

The Galactic Empire was a much more effective government than the Republic, enforcing their authority in the Outer Rim, bringing order to the galaxy which would be completed by the finishing of the construction of the Death Star. However a bunch of traitors established the Rebel Alliance to overthrow  the legitimate government of the galaxy, causing another civil war.

Another argument made against the Empire is the destruction of Alderaan by the Death Star. However Alderaan was a major base of rebel operations due to Princess Leia’s father being one of the leaders of the Rebellion. The destruction of Alderaan was necessary to end the war by defeating a major base of rebel operations and to cause the rebels to surrender. Think of it as Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

After the overthrow of the Empire, the Canon aftermath books describe the disaster that struck the galaxy. There was major instability, a rise in crime as underworld dynasties have regained dominance over worlds once kept free of their toxic influences by the Empire, and the Empire’s overthrow also caused economic disaster as there was a loss of jobs, income, and even lives. 

The Canon book Bloodline shows that the New Republic is just as ineffective as the old, with the senate full of two competing factions causing gridlock and stagnation.

In the sequel trilogy, the First Order is the successor to the Galactic Empire and therefore is the heir to the legitimate government of the galaxy, fighting to restore the legitimate government and order to the galaxy.

Offline niam2023

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3693
  • Gender: Male
  • The Forum Chad
And you've gone full LAWfriend - order and stability are not always good, especially when those ideas are bought with bloodshed and killing.
Living Life, Lifting, Waiting for Summer

Online Jacob Harrison

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1440
  • Gender: Male
  • The person who discovered England's true monarch
And you've gone full LAWfriend - order and stability are not always good, especially when those ideas are bought with bloodshed and killing.

Order and stability are usually good because it makes society peaceful and prosperous. For example, in Parallel Hero, the Europan Kingdom did that when they brought order and stability to Europe to the Middle East. By the way, when will your broken toe heal so that you can write Chapter 11 Part 2?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 02:35:03 pm by Jacob Harrison »

Offline ironbite

  • Overlord of all that is good in Iacon City
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 10253
  • Gender: Male
  • Your True God
.....you're a flat out moron.

Ironbite-I'd call you something else but I'm trying to drop that insult from my vocabulary.

Offline Art Vandelay

  • Greatest Person to Ever Grace this Shitty Forum
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 9573
  • Gender: Male
  • Check Your Privilege
Nah, you're straight up wrong.  In Star Wars, morality, stability, power and all other facets of being right are decided by one thing and one thing only. Laser colour. However, within this framework of rightness being determined by laser colour, there is some degree of variation. For instance, red lightsabers always signify bad guys, while pretty much every other available colour means the wielder is a good guy. Very simple. Ship mounted guns, on other hand, is reversed. The good guys in their X-Wings fire red lasers, while the bad guys with their handy dandy little Tie Fighters shoot green lasers. So in this case, red is for good while green is for bad. This is of course reversed yet again in the prequels, where the good guys in their Naboo Fighters or whatever they were called are back to shooting green lasers while the bad guys are using red. Now, in hand held guns, everyone shoots red lasers, so blasters are the only laser weapons in that entire universe that do not identify its user's righteousness.

So yeah, it's all about the ol' red and green.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3470
  • Have you got thumbs? SHOW ME YOUR FUCKING THUMBS!
Is lawful stupid an alignment?

Offline Art Vandelay

  • Greatest Person to Ever Grace this Shitty Forum
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 9573
  • Gender: Male
  • Check Your Privilege
Ironbite-I'd call you something else but I'm trying to drop that insult from my vocabulary.
Well, that wouldn't make sense in the first place because Jacob isn't black.

Offline ironbite

  • Overlord of all that is good in Iacon City
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 10253
  • Gender: Male
  • Your True God
Wrong word dumbfuck.

Offline Art Vandelay

  • Greatest Person to Ever Grace this Shitty Forum
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 9573
  • Gender: Male
  • Check Your Privilege
I wasn't talking about coon, you big silly goose.

Offline Skybison

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1014
Blowing up Alderaan didn't end the war, so saying it was needed to end the war makes no sense.

The republic doesn't really seem all that ineffective, the trade federation was going to back down once the Jedi got there until Siddy convinced them to continue.  Then when Amidala got to the senate he immediately steered her into the no confidence vote before discussion was really tried.  And we only have his word for it that the senate was bad the rest of the time.  If it hadn't been for him the whole thing would have gone fine.

Offline niam2023

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3693
  • Gender: Male
  • The Forum Chad
...Ah...I ah...I...

I just can't.

He literally couldn't tell when the Europan Empire's protectionist policies and nature literally let Abaddon set up his little fiefdom. He thinks the temporary security and stability are good when that "temporary" bit means that there's a literal monstrous army they let happen, with all the casualties entailed, and the current King doesn't want to admit Abaddon exists because it'd mean having to do something.

I cannot fathom being this pathologically devoted to order and stability.

I just can't.

And yes, Anne Wilkes, that part 2 is gonna be made as soon as college stops fucking kicking my ass.
Living Life, Lifting, Waiting for Summer

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 7999
  • Gender: Male
Who else is not surprised that the troll who makes up a genocidal plan has no problems with a fictional tyrannical leadership that has entire planets worth of sentient beings killed for the sake of scaring others into not rebelling?
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Online Jacob Harrison

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1440
  • Gender: Male
  • The person who discovered England's true monarch
Blowing up Alderaan didn't end the war, so saying it was needed to end the war makes no sense.

The republic doesn't really seem all that ineffective, the trade federation was going to back down once the Jedi got there until Siddy convinced them to continue.  Then when Amidala got to the senate he immediately steered her into the no confidence vote before discussion was really tried.  And we only have his word for it that the senate was bad the rest of the time.  If it hadn't been for him the whole thing would have gone fine.

It would have ended the war if the rebels did not succeed at blowing up the death star. And Sidious convinced them to continue so that he would be made chancellor as part of his plan to get revenge on the Jedi for what they did to the Sith in the past. That is why Episode III is called Revenge of the Sith. But anyway, the fact that the Chancellor Valorum instead of taking immediate action, was going to set up a committee to investigate if the invasion even happened, shows how ineffective the republic was. Imagine if Hawaii was invaded and the US government instead of taking immediate action, set up a committee to discuss if Hawaii was invaded.

Online Jacob Harrison

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1440
  • Gender: Male
  • The person who discovered England's true monarch
...Ah...I ah...I...

I just can't.

He literally couldn't tell when the Europan Empire's protectionist policies and nature literally let Abaddon set up his little fiefdom. He thinks the temporary security and stability are good when that "temporary" bit means that there's a literal monstrous army they let happen, with all the casualties entailed, and the current King doesn't want to admit Abaddon exists because it'd mean having to do something.

I cannot fathom being this pathologically devoted to order and stability.

I just can't.

And yes, Anne Wilkes, that part 2 is gonna be made as soon as college stops fucking kicking my ass.

My question, is why does King Michael think that the monstrous army will not attack his kingdom?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 08:03:13 am by Jacob Harrison »

Offline KingOfRhye

  • Pope
  • ****
  • Posts: 258
  • Gender: Male
You know who Palpatine and the Empire can be compared to quite easily from history?  And who, in fact, George Lucas has said was part of his inspiration for them?

Hitler and the Third Reich.  Especially with Palpatine's rise to power in the prequels.  And that's who you think are the real good guys???