Author Topic: Trumblr shits the bed  (Read 451 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8037
  • Gender: Male
Re: Trumblr shits the bed
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2018, 06:16:39 am »
Like I said. They fucked up in their attempt to fix a problem.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Katsuro

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1394
  • Gender: Male
Re: Trumblr shits the bed
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2018, 07:14:45 am »
Like I said. They fucked up in their attempt to fix a problem.

This is what happens when you take your problem solving solutions from 1980's action movies and your answer is to nuke the whole thing from orbit. Apparently they've never heard that expression about using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Online Art Vandelay

  • Greatest Person to Ever Grace this Shitty Forum
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 9623
  • Gender: Male
  • Check Your Privilege
Re: Trumblr shits the bed
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2018, 07:45:45 am »
I think we're forgetting that their goal isn't to get rid of all of the bad things on the site, it's to get back on Google and Apple's store fronts. Those two only cared about porn, so only porn is on the chopping block. No one powerful seems to be giving them problems about white supremacists, so no doubt they're happy to take their ad money and data.

Offline Katsuro

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1394
  • Gender: Male
Re: Trumblr shits the bed
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2018, 09:49:11 am »
I think we're forgetting that their goal isn't to get rid of all of the bad things on the site, it's to get back on Google and Apple's store fronts. Those two only cared about porn, so only porn is on the chopping block. No one powerful seems to be giving them problems about white supremacists, so no doubt they're happy to take their ad money and data.

Indeed, but Tumblr's own justifications about it amount to, "Won't someone think of the children!" and, "We want to make Tumblr a nicer, cleaner place." with no mention of Apple and Google's stores. So when they do nothing at all about such things as Nazi's using their platform to spread hate and advocate violence it's not exactly surprising that people will accuse Tumblr of being more than a little...disingenuous, shall we say, and having their priorities out of whack..
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 10:08:01 am by Katsuro »

Offline RavynousHunter

  • Master Thief
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 7785
  • Gender: Male
  • What's All This Tangly Rainbow Shit Mean?
    • My Twitter
Re: Trumblr shits the bed
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2018, 10:05:52 am »
Driving off a lot of the userbase will drop the value of Tumblr BUT if the stunt had also driven off all the undesirables it would have at least meant that the amount of potential buyers goes up.

This is basically them setting the garage on fire to get rid of rats there and hoping that the fire doesn't spread to the house. It did and they aren't sure if the rats are even gone but it was the only easy and quick idea they had.

Hiring a massive amount of mods or buying a machine learning automod are expensive, take time and are unreliable. If they wanted to really keep Tumblr they could do it but if they just want to dump it on someone else and run away with the cash then any money spent on fixing things means less money for them.

No real need to BUY a neural network.  I'm not joking when I say that rolling your own is insanely easy.  Hell, the hardest part would be gathering training data, and even then, it can learn unsupervised once it's initial training is completed.  You'd need, like...three guys, tops.
Quote from: Bra'tac
Life for the sake of life means nothing.

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8037
  • Gender: Male
Re: Trumblr shits the bed
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2018, 11:08:23 am »
Somehow I doubt it really is that easy.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3532
  • Have you got thumbs? SHOW ME YOUR FUCKING THUMBS!
Re: Trumblr shits the bed
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2018, 02:13:12 pm »
I think we're forgetting that their goal isn't to get rid of all of the bad things on the site, it's to get back on Google and Apple's store fronts. Those two only cared about porn, so only porn is on the chopping block. No one powerful seems to be giving them problems about white supremacists, so no doubt they're happy to take their ad money and data.

Indeed, but Tumblr's own justifications about it amount to, "Won't someone think of the children!" and, "We want to make Tumblr a nicer, cleaner place." with no mention of Apple and Google's stores. So when they do nothing at all about such things as Nazi's using their platform to spread hate and advocate violence it's not exactly surprising that people will accuse Tumblr of being more than a little...disingenuous, shall we say, and having their priorities out of whack..
Well, they can't exactly say "we need to sell this turkey and we'll do whatever it takes" or "we're amoral, corporate shitheels that only give a fuck about ostensible morality when our bottom line is threatened."

Offline RavynousHunter

  • Master Thief
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 7785
  • Gender: Male
  • What's All This Tangly Rainbow Shit Mean?
    • My Twitter
Re: Trumblr shits the bed
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2018, 08:48:50 pm »
Somehow I doubt it really is that easy.

I've done it.  Granted, it doesn't do real-time video classification, but image classification is piss-easy.  The only real difficult part is getting it to work with images of varying dimensions, but one could just resize them to a specific set of dimensions and feed them into the network that way.

Allow me to go into details!

Okay, so for image classification (or anything where you need more variable pattern matching) you don't use a normal (termed "dense") neural network, but a convolutional neural network.  These take in patches of information at a time (say, a 3x3 pixel area) for each input.  This allows the network to notice patterns regardless of location.  Work this magic with a recurrent neural network (which is purpose built for time-series data like video) and you can have something that can classify any video it is given.

I've done convolutional nets before; they require no more than a few dozen lines of Python to get trained, if you use the right libraries, all of whom are totally free.

The only other challenge than gathering initial data for training, testing, and validation (which could be legally iffy, given the content in question), is tuning the network's topology to increase accuracy by allowing it to pick out the right set of features in any given image or video.  Once its done training and validating that it is actually accurate, running the thing is actually extremely quick.  Hell, my local Walmart uses it to detect moving people in a live CCTV feed.

Students learn this in an intermediate-level computer science course.  I learned this in an intermediate level computer science course.  Tumblr, with all the money it no doubt has, with all the developers its got on-call, could surely get a couple good servers with  high-end GPUs (this is why nVidia is raking in money like crazy, GPUs are insanely good with machine learning), have their trained monkeys spend a few moons (at the absolute most) creating, training, and optimizing classifiers for both static images and video to find and flag (not remove, just flag for human review) potential child pornography.

The resources are out there, and they're totally fuckin' free.  Tumblr just needed to get off its ass and spend some of that sweet, sweet advertiser cheddar to get it done.  But that requires time, effort, and money.  As we all know, that's the devil's work.
Quote from: Bra'tac
Life for the sake of life means nothing.

Online Art Vandelay

  • Greatest Person to Ever Grace this Shitty Forum
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 9623
  • Gender: Male
  • Check Your Privilege
Re: Trumblr shits the bed
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2018, 10:04:42 pm »
I think we're forgetting that their goal isn't to get rid of all of the bad things on the site, it's to get back on Google and Apple's store fronts. Those two only cared about porn, so only porn is on the chopping block. No one powerful seems to be giving them problems about white supremacists, so no doubt they're happy to take their ad money and data.

Indeed, but Tumblr's own justifications about it amount to, "Won't someone think of the children!" and, "We want to make Tumblr a nicer, cleaner place." with no mention of Apple and Google's stores. So when they do nothing at all about such things as Nazi's using their platform to spread hate and advocate violence it's not exactly surprising that people will accuse Tumblr of being more than a little...disingenuous, shall we say, and having their priorities out of whack..

Of course it's disingenuous. What, are there actually people out there who think corporate PR speak is sincere?

Offline Sigmaleph

  • Ungodlike
  • Administrator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3529
    • sigmaleph on tumblr
Re: Trumblr shits the bed
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2018, 04:49:42 pm »
Driving off a lot of the userbase will drop the value of Tumblr BUT if the stunt had also driven off all the undesirables it would have at least meant that the amount of potential buyers goes up.

This is basically them setting the garage on fire to get rid of rats there and hoping that the fire doesn't spread to the house. It did and they aren't sure if the rats are even gone but it was the only easy and quick idea they had.

Hiring a massive amount of mods or buying a machine learning automod are expensive, take time and are unreliable. If they wanted to really keep Tumblr they could do it but if they just want to dump it on someone else and run away with the cash then any money spent on fixing things means less money for them.

No real need to BUY a neural network.  I'm not joking when I say that rolling your own is insanely easy.  Hell, the hardest part would be gathering training data, and even then, it can learn unsupervised once it's initial training is completed.  You'd need, like...three guys, tops.

They *have* a neural network (well, they have some machine learning algorithm for detecting child porn. I'm assuming it's a neural network). It has a non-zero false negative rate, though, and they are failing at the follow-through they inevitably need to do.

They also have one for nsfw content in general and that one is performing pretty badly.

I think we're forgetting that their goal isn't to get rid of all of the bad things on the site, it's to get back on Google and Apple's store fronts. Those two only cared about porn, so only porn is on the chopping block. No one powerful seems to be giving them problems about white supremacists, so no doubt they're happy to take their ad money and data.

They were never out of the Google app store, only Apple's (which has stricter standards about content).

Anyway, it's not exactly all they care about. Verizon have noticed they are not making nearly as much as money as they'd like from tumblr and advertisers do not like their ads next to porn, they've been planning the adult content ban for a while. But then the child porn/apple store removal happened and they decided to move up the timeline. (source)
Σא

Offline RavynousHunter

  • Master Thief
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 7785
  • Gender: Male
  • What's All This Tangly Rainbow Shit Mean?
    • My Twitter
Re: Trumblr shits the bed
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2018, 08:13:12 pm »
Driving off a lot of the userbase will drop the value of Tumblr BUT if the stunt had also driven off all the undesirables it would have at least meant that the amount of potential buyers goes up.

This is basically them setting the garage on fire to get rid of rats there and hoping that the fire doesn't spread to the house. It did and they aren't sure if the rats are even gone but it was the only easy and quick idea they had.

Hiring a massive amount of mods or buying a machine learning automod are expensive, take time and are unreliable. If they wanted to really keep Tumblr they could do it but if they just want to dump it on someone else and run away with the cash then any money spent on fixing things means less money for them.

No real need to BUY a neural network.  I'm not joking when I say that rolling your own is insanely easy.  Hell, the hardest part would be gathering training data, and even then, it can learn unsupervised once it's initial training is completed.  You'd need, like...three guys, tops.

They *have* a neural network (well, they have some machine learning algorithm for detecting child porn. I'm assuming it's a neural network). It has a non-zero false negative rate, though, and they are failing at the follow-through they inevitably need to do.

They also have one for nsfw content in general and that one is performing pretty badly.

I figured.  Even the best tools are worthless in the hands of people with no desire or ability to use them properly.

They were never out of the Google app store, only Apple's (which has stricter standards about content).

Anyway, it's not exactly all they care about. Verizon have noticed they are not making nearly as much as money as they'd like from tumblr and advertisers do not like their ads next to porn, they've been planning the adult content ban for a while. But then the child porn/apple store removal happened and they decided to move up the timeline. (source)

While advertisers have the right to determine what they feel is appropriate content for their ads to appear on, it is kind of disturbing how much sway they have over certain parts of the net.
Quote from: Bra'tac
Life for the sake of life means nothing.

Offline dpareja

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 4864
Re: Trumblr shits the bed
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2018, 08:21:11 pm »
They were never out of the Google app store, only Apple's (which has stricter standards about content).

Anyway, it's not exactly all they care about. Verizon have noticed they are not making nearly as much as money as they'd like from tumblr and advertisers do not like their ads next to porn, they've been planning the adult content ban for a while. But then the child porn/apple store removal happened and they decided to move up the timeline. (source)

While advertisers have the right to determine what they feel is appropriate content for their ads to appear on, it is kind of disturbing how much sway they have over certain parts of the net.

Well, let's face it: hosting sites costs money, and the more storage space you need, and the more bandwidth you need, the more money it costs. Tumblr decided that they'd sell ads, and so advertisers necessarily have sway over what's allowed to be on Tumblr. There aren't many other options for raising the necessary funds.

Does it suck that advertisers have the sort of influence over content that they do? Sure. But it's just a reality.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Sigmaleph

  • Ungodlike
  • Administrator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3529
    • sigmaleph on tumblr
Re: Trumblr shits the bed
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2018, 10:42:12 pm »
They were never out of the Google app store, only Apple's (which has stricter standards about content).

Anyway, it's not exactly all they care about. Verizon have noticed they are not making nearly as much as money as they'd like from tumblr and advertisers do not like their ads next to porn, they've been planning the adult content ban for a while. But then the child porn/apple store removal happened and they decided to move up the timeline. (source)

While advertisers have the right to determine what they feel is appropriate content for their ads to appear on, it is kind of disturbing how much sway they have over certain parts of the net.

Well, let's face it: hosting sites costs money, and the more storage space you need, and the more bandwidth you need, the more money it costs. Tumblr decided that they'd sell ads, and so advertisers necessarily have sway over what's allowed to be on Tumblr. There aren't many other options for raising the necessary funds.

Does it suck that advertisers have the sort of influence over content that they do? Sure. But it's just a reality.

There are other business models for social media. They have their own downsides, obviously, but lots of people have been looking at the kind of shit ad-driven social media tend to pull and trying to look for alternatives

Pillowfort, which does a lot to sell itself as Tumblr-but-better, aims for a subscription model (they're currently in a pay-once-for-an-invite beta). Mastodon, which tries to be Twitter-but-better, distributes hosting costs to whoever feels like setting up a server (and individually those usually run on donations if they grow too much).

Σא

Offline Kanzenkankaku

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 524
  • Gender: Female
  • Dreamer/Lightner
    • Mastadon Account
Re: Trumblr shits the bed
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2018, 04:10:42 am »
Woke tumblr children couldn't tell the difference between pedophilia and age gap shipping featuring two legal adults, so it's only fitting the woke tumblr bot flags random fully clothed people and funny dog pictures and shit.

Ah well, I'll still be over on mastadon, and I actually finally signed up for newgrounds instead of sometimes lurking that site. Used to be pretty dead but tumblrs lifeforce has now transfered into it. And by lifeforce I mean porn art.

Offline rookie

  • Miscreant, petty criminal, and all around nice guy
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2145
  • Gender: Male
Re: Trumblr shits the bed
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2018, 07:44:41 am »
I thought tumblr's life force was sheltered children complaining about white men.
The difference between 0 and 1 is infinite. The difference between 1 and a million is a matter of degree. - Zack Johnson

Quote from: davedan board=pg thread=6573 post=218058 time=1286247542
I'll stop eating beef lamb and pork the same day they start letting me eat vegetarians.