Worst of Social Justice

[Eiki-mun]

To exist is to predate, unless you're living off a purely synthetic diet (which I think would either be impossible or severely detrimental). That apple you're eating? Another animal could've eaten it. Those crops? The farmland was cut into the homes of other animals. You want to eat vegan? Fine. But do not pretend you're above the cycle. Do not pretend you're above the rest of us because you never see the exploited animals in your ledger.

I'm honestly surprised to see you adopting this attitude. I dunno why, I just... am.

[davedan]

Okay, no. There's a world of difference between "if you're going to use something part of another culture, do your research, listen to the people of that culture and make sure you're not actually blaspheming on something that's sacred and integral to them" and "all cultures need to literally be segregated all of the time".

And the picture itself is not something I'll comment on.

Except using something disrespectfully isn't appropriation of the culture. It might be abuse or it might be careless but it isn't actually appropriation. To give an example, as a man I am allowed to play a didgeridoo. When I do it that may well be cultural appropriation. However you won't find any Murri/Koori or any other indigenous Australians upset at me for doing so. However if a woman does they will be upset. Because didgeridoos are instruments for men and it's forbidden for women to play them. The insensitivity is not in the playing but who is playing it. That is what amounts to the sacrilege.

A far worse form of cultural appropriation one which is bad is getting British and European backpackers to manufacture didgeridoos using power tools and flog them off for profit. But that is not the sort of thing we see people who get excited about this complaining about. They seem more obsessed with whether non japanese people should be able to wear Kimonos or non-hispanic people can eat guacamole.

[lord gibbon]

i have no problem with any diet, so long as you're not a dick about it.

vegetarians? no biggie. pescatarians? well, i don't like fish, so they can have my share of the stuff. pure carnivores? ok, fine, but don't ask me to follow, i love vegetables too much for that.

vegans? well, they're a bitch to cook for, but if they're not militant about it (ie: "meat is murder" types), go ahead. your body, your rules.

my real only gripe is people who won't try a food because it grosses them out (or they find the animal "cute"). because of that, i didn't try rabbit until my early 20's, because my sister found them too fluffy and cute. and man oh man was i ever missing out. baste the sucker in mustard seeds and and some garlic, you've got an easy feast!

oh, and for the best french fries ever, throw unpeeled spuds in duck fat. totally worth the cancer and cholesterol. only way i got a squeamish american friend to try them out was to hide that detail from him.

i may be a picky eater, but i will try everything at least once, so long as it's not shellfish (allergies). gator tasted foul, but i'm still waiting for the opportunity to try snake and turtle.

Shark is tasty, elk and bison are some of the best meats out there, and I'm eager to try horse.

[Svata]

Bison is delicious.

[Even Then]

Except using something disrespectfully isn't appropriation of the culture. It might be abuse or it might be careless but it isn't actually appropriation. To give an example, as a man I am allowed to play a didgeridoo. When I do it that may well be cultural appropriation. However you won't find any Murri/Koori or any other indigenous Australians upset at me for doing so. However if a woman does they will be upset. Because didgeridoos are instruments for men and it's forbidden for women to play them. The insensitivity is not in the playing but who is playing it. That is what amounts to the sacrilege.

A far worse form of cultural appropriation one which is bad is getting British and European backpackers to manufacture didgeridoos using power tools and flog them off for profit. But that is not the sort of thing we see people who get excited about this complaining about. They seem more obsessed with whether non japanese people should be able to wear Kimonos or non-hispanic people can eat guacamole.

I can see what you're going at (but if someone non-Aboriginal used the didgeridoo like "hey look at this wacky instrument, aren't those indigenous people weird and exotic", they'd still be a bellend) and I haven't seen anyone talk about that backpacker thing (even though that doesn't necessarily mean that discourse about it doesn't exist).

[davedan]

Yeah but you're not being a bellend for adopting the culture but because you are being a knob. That's my whole point about the backpacker thing, its people exploiting the indigenous culture for profit while at the same time excluding members of the culture from profit. That's actually a bad thing. Unlike wanting to eat kim-chi.

The fact that we hear more about that sort of stuff and how you shouldn't date people outside of your culture (or from a less privileged background) always strikes me as segregationist. Different motives from racists. Same outcome.

[Even Then]

Okay, I'm pretty sure the "don't eat foreign foods ever or you're an evil appropriator" crowd is mostly either trolls or strawmen, because that just sounds to me like someone saw people talking about cultural appropriation and went "this is completely unreasonable, let's mock them". I dunno, sounds like an exaggeration to me. Of course, if people are legit saying this, I disagree with it.

And from what I can tell, utilizing cultural elements for fun&profit while deriding the group that spawned it would still include our hypothetical bellend into the concept of cultural appropriation, because they're adopting the culture wrong.

[guizonde]

Except using something disrespectfully isn't appropriation of the culture. It might be abuse or it might be careless but it isn't actually appropriation. To give an example, as a man I am allowed to play a didgeridoo. When I do it that may well be cultural appropriation. However you won't find any Murri/Koori or any other indigenous Australians upset at me for doing so. However if a woman does they will be upset. Because didgeridoos are instruments for men and it's forbidden for women to play them. The insensitivity is not in the playing but who is playing it. That is what amounts to the sacrilege.

A far worse form of cultural appropriation one which is bad is getting British and European backpackers to manufacture didgeridoos using power tools and flog them off for profit. But that is not the sort of thing we see people who get excited about this complaining about. They seem more obsessed with whether non japanese people should be able to wear Kimonos or non-hispanic people can eat guacamole.

I can see what you're going at (but if someone non-Aboriginal used the didgeridoo like "hey look at this wacky instrument, aren't those indigenous people weird and exotic", they'd still be a bellend) and I haven't seen anyone talk about that backpacker thing (even though that doesn't necessarily mean that discourse about it doesn't exist).

my friend inherited a didjeridoo from his dad. know what he uses it for? recording bass drops when he mixes trance music. you know, playing actual music with it. i don't think it's cultural appropriation. he was inspired by this band that would make most sjw's flip their lid. parisians using didjeridoos, derbukas, djembe's, sitars, and oriental scales to make trance music? blasphemy.
fuck it. it sounds good, they've got a hell of a level. the more i read about it, the more i deem cultural appropriation the natural order of things, and the more i find "cultural appropriation police" the true racists. it's basic segregation.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04NvXjNnJfE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04NvXjNnJfE</a>

[Even Then]

Yeah, but your dad isn't playing music while exocitizing, fetishizing or being racist or mocking towards aboriginals. No one's saying that you can't use things from other cultures ever in any context, they're saying do it with respect. That was my initial point when I said there's a difference between opposing cultural appropriation and being for cultural segregation.

[guizonde]

Yeah, but your dad isn't playing music while exocitizing, fetishizing or being racist or mocking towards aboriginals. No one's saying that you can't use things from other cultures ever in any context, they're saying do it with respect. That was my initial point when I said there's a difference between opposing cultural appropriation and being for cultural segregation.

friend. neither me nor my dad can play a didje to save our life. aside from that, i agree with you.

... on the other hand, some people have viewed listening to this music as cultural appropriation. and there is something wrong with that.

[Even Then]

Automatically? Yeah, I don't think it is either.

[TheL]

To exist is to predate, unless you're living off a purely synthetic diet (which I think would either be impossible or severely detrimental). That apple you're eating? Another animal could've eaten it. Those crops? The farmland was cut into the homes of other animals. You want to eat vegan? Fine. But do not pretend you're above the cycle. Do not pretend you're above the rest of us because you never see the exploited animals in your ledger.

Plus, even vegetables are, essentially, dead organisms.  You can't eat without killing something.

[Art Vandelay]

Personally, I think all of this "cultural appropriation" business is a load of nonsense. If a thing is sacred to one group, that's their prerogative. However, it's completely unreasonable to expect everyone else to treat it with the same reverence essentially just to spare their feelings. As long as that group aren't having their sacred objects or customs taken away from them, then there's nothing wrong with outsiders using copies as they see fit.

[pyro]

Plus, even vegetables are, essentially, dead organisms.  You can't eat without killing something.

Unless you're a breatharian.

[lord gibbon]

I have to agree with Art here. The example I would use is this. A skeleton called Kennewick Man was discovered in Washington, and a local tribe wanted to have the remains buried in accordance with their traditions. That would have been the wrong decision, as the scientific value of the remains is far greater. Culture does not trump the advancement of knowledge, and I have always believed, in the most literal snese, that nothing is sacred.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennewick_Man