On Trivializing Abortion

[Captain Jack Harkness]

Okay, I would just like to start out by saying that I am pro-choice.

Having said that, I've seen cases in which others who are pro-choice say shit that trivializes the magnitude of the decision being made by the potential mother.  One such example that helps highlight this is on Failbook.

http://cheezburger.com/7041557504

So someone's saying their pregnant, and that they're going to leave an decision like abortion up to how many fucking "likes" they get on a Facebook post?  Are you fucking kidding me?  What's worse is that while this was condemned by most people, myself included, some people felt the need to make some statements that made it seem like abortion is no big deal.

waaah. let us all weep about a mass of cells

lolol look at all the antichoice butthurt

If they have the kid, I hope when the kid is older that someone shows this to them, so they realize how much their mommy wanted them.
 
I say abort. Remove the parasite before it grows a human brain.

God damn.  Fucking seriously?  Abortion is a huge fucking decision, and yet people are saying shit like this!  Do people who say this shit honestly think that abortion is just a choice you make on a fucking whim?

I was kinda thinking of putting this in F&B, but we'll see how the thread pans out.

[Jack Mann]

Yeah.  Anyone who thinks it's a light decision is pretty fucking clueless.

Tragically hilarious, it's pretty much the same thinking that leads a lot of pro-lifers.  "Women won't take abortions seriously, so we have to do it for them."

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

It is, indeed, an important decision, and thankfully one I will never have to contemplate. I do not have an opinion one way or another when it comes to any individual woman's decision on the subject. That being said, I shed no tears for fetuses the way so-called pro-lifers do.

[Material Defender]

I'm pro-choice because the alternatives are worse than the what is. Yet, I tend to dislike the idea of wasting a potential human life because the mother has no easy access to health care or other necessities of life.

But yeah, the whole trivializing potential human life just energizes the pro life movement and gives ammunition they can fire at the pro-choice movement. Trivializing the mother's decisions in such a case and how most mother's who do it already have one child especially just makes it even worse. Just a lot of people involve don't understand the issue at all.

I suppose I feel especially close to the issue because I lost a sister as stillborn. Whether or not I knew her, it still hurts to think about.

[RavynousHunter]

Yeaaaaaaah...long story short, my mom got knocked up by some Puerto Rican dickhead who bolted back to his home country the moment he found out she was pregnant.  Not having shit in the way of support, she had to abort, and that memory's STILL painful for her.  For reference, this was -before- either my brother or I were even conceived, 30 years or more ago, and she's either at or over 50 years-old.  Easy decision, my aching ass.

Now, given that, I still support a lady's right to choose.  You don't want a child, for whatever reason you might have?  Okay, that's your decision.  Your body, your choice, and you get to decide what lives and grows inside it; be it a disease, cancer, or a fetus.  Lotta pro-lifers wouldn't bat an eye if a woman who'd been forced by either family, doctors, or the law to carry a child to term that she couldn't support, drank herself to death because of it, or jumped into the path of an oncoming train, or hanged herself.  No, many of those assholes wouldn't give two fucks about that, but you dare even consider terminating a fetus that you either can't support or (for whatever reason) don't want, they go fucking apeshit.

As George Carlin put it: "Why is it most of the people who are against abortion are people you wouldn't wanna fuck in the first place?"

[Osama bin Bambi]

It's my personal view that people can feel however they want about their abortions, since it's their private decision, but it is still irresponsible to make that decision off of something stupid like a Facebook post. There's nothing wrong with abortion and I do not see the point in weeping for something that was never a person to begin with, but the possible mother should really think through it carefully and consider how it will affect her.

[Auggziliary]

I'm not going to shed tears over a fetus, but it's still pretty fucked up. You can find something fucked up without there being anything "wrong" with it. Like if someone fucked a taxidermy deer, that would be pretty fucked up, but I still would protect their right to fuck taxidermy animals.

I know that's not really comparable with abortion in general. I'm talking about the facebook likes abortion one, and other abortions like that.

[Captain Jack Harkness]

So I just wanted to bump this and add something.  While the FB post set me off originally, I do want to mention a beef I have with some of the general member attitude here concerning abortion.  While most people here are agreeing with my posts, I have repeatedly seen people comparing abortion to chicken eggs, parasites, or just a "lump of cells."  Now I'm not necessarily saying the other pictures saying a fetus looks exactly like a newborn are true - I think it depends on how late we're talking in the pregnancy - but the general rhetoric against fetuses are a bit...frustrating to deal with.

I realize that abortion is a sensitive and quite controversial issue, but it seems like it's really fucking hard to get more than just...reactionary bullshit.  I've NEVER felt like this forum could have a serious discussion about abortion without it devolving into personal attacks or flame-bating bullshit like calling a fetus a fucking parasite.  Maybe a mod should move this to F&B, because I'm just...fired up.

Another thing I have a beef with is the way that it seems that a majority of this forum gets fired up and shouting "WOMAN'S RIGHTS OMG!" whenever any legislation whatsoever concerning abortion is brought up.  Granted, not all of the legislation out there is necessarily the best, but I think the knee-jerk reply to anybody making any sorts of changes to the current system comes off as...I just....  Let's just say I don't think it helps things at all and makes us look like rabid lunatics.

In fact, I would advise any mod reading to keep an eye on this thread and like...be ready to move it to F&B.  I'm not necessarily trying to tell you guys how to do your jobs, but I do realize that my posts could very well start some extremely strong debate not appropriate for R&P.

[RavynousHunter]

You seem to be under the assumption that anyone of any importance is even giving a cursory glance at this forum.  The only non-members (or non-prospects) that view this site, I think, are the Rapture Ready crowd, and...do you really give two fucks what they think?

Lotta folks are venting their spleens when that happens.  If anyone reading this doesn't get that, then they wouldn't understand if we made well-reasoned arguments, either, because there's a fundamental difference between our methods of thought that can't be bridged with mere words.

If you spend your time worrying about what other people think about the things you say on what is likely a relatively obscure internet forum...well, you ain't gonna get much done in life, if ya ask me.  The bottom line, and the ultimate question therein is, why do you care?  Why do you care what hypothetical outsiders think?

[Captain Jack Harkness]

You seem to be under the assumption that anyone of any importance is even giving a cursory glance at this forum.  The only non-members (or non-prospects) that view this site, I think, are the Rapture Ready crowd, and...do you really give two fucks what they think?

Lotta folks are venting their spleens when that happens.  If anyone reading this doesn't get that, then they wouldn't understand if we made well-reasoned arguments, either, because there's a fundamental difference between our methods of thought that can't be bridged with mere words.

If you spend your time worrying about what other people think about the things you say on what is likely a relatively obscure internet forum...well, you ain't gonna get much done in life, if ya ask me.  The bottom line, and the ultimate question therein is, why do you care?  Why do you care what hypothetical outsiders think?

I think I can sum this up in a single sentence:  It's a matter of principle.

I'd rather speak my mind then let it bubble under the surface forever.  When people start making light of abortion, it annoys me. 

If you're talking about my "this might be F&B worthy" stuff, than that's just awareness of how...pissed off I sound.  Honestly I kinda came back to this because I thought of the language used and I was pissed off.

[Damen]

http://cheezburger.com/7041557504

[Sleepy]

Another thing I have a beef with is the way that it seems that a majority of this forum gets fired up and shouting "WOMAN'S RIGHTS OMG!" whenever any legislation whatsoever concerning abortion is brought up.  Granted, not all of the legislation out there is necessarily the best, but I think the knee-jerk reply to anybody making any sorts of changes to the current system comes off as...I just....  Let's just say I don't think it helps things at all and makes us look like rabid lunatics.

Why do you have a beef with that? We have every right to be fired up about lawmakers trying to regulate our bodies.

[Osama bin Bambi]

Another thing I have a beef with is the way that it seems that a majority of this forum gets fired up and shouting "WOMAN'S RIGHTS OMG!" whenever any legislation whatsoever concerning abortion is brought up.  Granted, not all of the legislation out there is necessarily the best, but I think the knee-jerk reply to anybody making any sorts of changes to the current system comes off as...I just....  Let's just say I don't think it helps things at all and makes us look like rabid lunatics.

Why do you have a beef with that? We have every right to be fired up about lawmakers trying to regulate our bodies.

Yeah, how dare women get angry and bring up feminism when a politician tries to enshrine sexism into law.

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

Another thing I have a beef with is the way that it seems that a majority of this forum gets fired up and shouting "WOMAN'S RIGHTS OMG!" whenever any legislation whatsoever concerning abortion is brought up.  Granted, not all of the legislation out there is necessarily the best, but I think the knee-jerk reply to anybody making any sorts of changes to the current system comes off as...I just....  Let's just say I don't think it helps things at all and makes us look like rabid lunatics.

Why do you have a beef with that? We have every right to be fired up about lawmakers trying to regulate our bodies.

Because uppity women or something, I dunno.

[Captain Jack Harkness]

I realize there's the body issue.  However, with great power (the power to give birth) comes great responsibility.  By using inflammatory language about the fetus, women and men who use it don't look the greatest in front of people they're opposing on the matter of pro-choice vs. pro-life.

If it bothers you that it bothers me that I see so much reactionary language, tough.  I personally think it makes you look like you're entitled.  It doesn't fucking help when a person arguing for an abortion calls a fetus a "parasite."  You guys wanna know why there's all these "Abolish Human Abortion" things?  I say that a decent portion is helped by the rather rabid behavior of people who are pro-choice.  Can there be rabid pro-life people?  Yeah.  Does it excuse the people who are rabidly pro-choice to the point that any sort of legislation is met with "Shove it, you fuckhead!"  No.

Edit:  I realize that some legislation is supposed to be a "sneaky" way to circumvent Roe vs. Wade.  I get that part, but when I see people treating abortion like it's not a very difficult ethical decision, I just start raging.  When people start trying to turn the fetus into something like "just a clump of cells," they fucking trivialize the decision, IMO.  It's not cool, and it doesn't help their position.