US sues Bank of America for $1 billion

[Lt. Fred]

No. If you've committed a crime, if there's a vast and irrefutable body of evidence proving you to have committed a crime- even without any real investigation- then you should be prosecuted. And you shouldn't just kinda-sue the corporation for peanuts, you should prosecute the people responsive.

Imagine if these people knew they'd go to jail for breaking the law.

[Fpqxz]

One billion? Not one thousand billion? Or a gazillion? Nope, only one billion dollars of harm done- at maximum. Yeah, this is just cover up by other means.

Also guess how many will go to jail. Or how many execs will personally face the consequences.

The shareholders will (ultimately) pay the cost if the court finds for the plaintiffs, even though they had little to no influence on the actions of management.

Another disadvantage of the corporate form.

[VirtualStranger]

No. If you've committed a crime, if there's a vast and irrefutable body of evidence proving you to have committed a crime- even without any real investigation- then you should be prosecuted. And you shouldn't just kinda-sue the corporation for peanuts, you should prosecute the people responsive.

Imagine if these people knew they'd go to jail for breaking the law.

Why? So they can just sit in a nice country-club luxury prison?

Do you honestly think they would get thrown in the same prison as the drug dealers and rapists?

[Lt. Fred]

I don't much care, to be honest. A couple of years in jail and a lifetime ban from business and being called a fraudster and a massive personal and corporate fine- that will do.

[Sylvana]

No. If you've committed a crime, if there's a vast and irrefutable body of evidence proving you to have committed a crime- even without any real investigation- then you should be prosecuted. And you shouldn't just kinda-sue the corporation for peanuts, you should prosecute the people responsive.

Imagine if these people knew they'd go to jail for breaking the law.

Why? So they can just sit in a nice country-club luxury prison?

Do you honestly think they would get thrown in the same prison as the drug dealers and rapists?

Well yes they do get thrown in the same prison, but they know how to cheat the system. Perhaps not as blatantly in America as our local bunch who get out on medical parole, but they manage to tweak the system so that they receive plenty of care. If they don't manage to skip the whole thing and just getting early parole or something.
It is amazing how money and power and prestige gets things to go your way.

It really bugs me how the system always works in these guys favour. I know that things like medical parole is actually a good thing, but it pisses me off that real terminal patients die while waiting for their medical parole hearing to come up, but someone who is connected gets let out for having anxiety (I am not joking about this.) The system is good in theory, but it never helps those who it truly is supposed to, and gets blatantly abused by those who should benefit from it least.

I sometimes think we do need two sets of rules, because the ones at the top of the pyramid certainly don't play by the normal rules of everyone else so perhaps when it comes time to bring them to justice, a different set of rules and punishments needs to be brought against them.

[TenfoldMaquette]

I'll join the chorus of "finally!", but at the same time...there is something particularly powerless about a government that can't even manage to prosecute, or even meaningfully inconvenience, a single executive because of how damned rich they are. Apparently after a certain threshold, laws don't really have anything to do with you - certainly, the consequences of breaking the law is not meaningfully enforced - so I really do have to sit back and wonder what the point of this whole fiasco is. If the govt sues them for a small amount, the bank will absorb the loss by passing on the cost of paying it onto their customers/employees, resulting in layoffs and more/higher fees; no point in doing this because no one in charge is going to feel it and thus be deterred. If they govt sues them for a huge amount and effectively collapses the company, everyone in charge leaves with their pockets full of cash and again the customers/employees suffer, only now they're losing services and jobs outright; again, there seems very little point to all this because the guys in control will just move on.

The end result of all of this, whichever tack we take, is that the people least responsible for this mess are the ones that are going to bear the brunt of the punishment...and apparently there's nothing that can be done about it. It abjectly sucks that the people who fucked all of this up will be the last people out there to actually suffer for what they did, and in all likelihood will just keep on keeping on because the system is designed to let them do whatever they want and no one has the guff to actually do something about it. It's like "punishing" a serial murderer for his crimes by beating up his (uninvolved, and likely abused) kids.

[Material Defender]

I think this stuff comes from the corporations are considered people thing. The liability is quite literally spread over each and every share holder. If the exec board couldn't hide behind the corporation, well. Would be different. They top end can still be brought up for criminal charges if the company is liable for civil damages. Sometimes how people see the super rich in comparison to normal people is borderline Conspiracy theory stuff. A criminal case (For say, rico maybe?) would allow the government to freeze and repossess ill-gotten money. Just the whole corporations are people thing makes it a lot harder to blame someone unless they are run by a small group of investors.

I do agree on the idea that corporations top believe in trickle down pain, not gain.

[erictheblue]

No. If you've committed a crime, if there's a vast and irrefutable body of evidence proving you to have committed a crime- even without any real investigation- then you should be prosecuted. And you shouldn't just kinda-sue the corporation for peanuts, you should prosecute the people responsive.

Imagine if these people knew they'd go to jail for breaking the law.

You are assuming they actually broke the law. There is a difference between regulations and criminal statutes. Bank executives could easily violate regulations or good ethics without breaking the law.

I am sure there are some bank execs who did break the law. If (as you said above) there is proof that could be used in court, prosecute. But you (general you, not you specifically) cannot say "throw them all in prison" because there may not be grounds to do so.

[nickiknack]

We need to do what Iceland is doing, throwing the bankers in jail.

[m52nickerson]

We need to do what Iceland is doing, throwing the bankers in jail.

Perhaps you missed this, let me post it again from FSTDT's law office.

You are assuming they actually broke the law. There is a difference between regulations and criminal statutes. Bank executives could easily violate regulations or good ethics without breaking the law.

I am sure there are some bank execs who did break the law. If (as you said above) there is proof that could be used in court, prosecute. But you (general you, not you specifically) cannot say "throw them all in prison" because there may not be grounds to do so.

[Material Defender]

I'd prefer to avoid broaching the system of law to go on a crusade against these people. Teutonic Knights are not people I want running the government. Yes, I know the trope is Knights Templar, but the only thing the Knights templar were good at were getting burned at the stake for heresy and hiding in Switzerland. Teutonic Knights were much better at living the trope. Also batwings on their helmets. For Jesus?

Ignoring my tangent. I'd prefer to respect the law, rather than twist it for people's whims. Can lead to problems when someone with more evil purposes down the line can use the twisting.

[Witchyjoshy]

I suppose that's the dilemma then, isn't it?

All that is good can be used for evil.

[nickiknack]

If you bothered to read what I cited, it says that they're actually being prosecuted in Iceland, I don't think anyone here is for just throwing them in jail for shits & giggles.

[RavynousHunter]

If you bothered to read what I cited, it says that they're actually being prosecuted in Iceland, I don't think anyone here is for just throwing them in jail for shits & giggles.

Though, that would be worth a lotta giggles.

[Sylvana]

If you bothered to read what I cited, it says that they're actually being prosecuted in Iceland, I don't think anyone here is for just throwing them in jail for shits & giggles.

I think the difference is that in Iceland they are not letting the bankers abuse the system to their advantage and thus get away with whatever crimes they committed like what normally happens. It is far easier to hide your fraud and illegal dealings when you have a team of lawyers obfuscating the situation, calling every little bit of evidence into question and generally dragging the whole proceeding on for so long that the the people involved die of old age before they see the inside of a jail cell.

Fraud and corruption is already an extremely difficult thing to prove legally, but it is downright impossible with lawyers abusing the legal system to cover for you. There was a case here locally where a doped up musician and his friend killed 4 kids with a drag racing accident. It was the most clear cut case in the world. If anyone else had done it the trial would have lasted a single day. It took 2 years of legal shenanigans on behalf of the musicians lawyer before reaching a conviction. The lawyer was dragging on proceedings and questioning every little piece of evidence on the smallest least consequential details, continually asking for postponements and demanding proof that evidence had not been contaminated or tampered with on every single item, despite the fact that any single piece of evidence in that case would have been enough for the conviction everything was delayed. It was painful to watch. He has not even been sentenced yet, and his lawyers will inevitably appeal and then drag out the appeal proceedings as long as possible. Everyone knows the guy is guilty as sin, but though shenanigans like this he is still out and about as a free man.

This is what happens in absolutely solid clear cut cases, now imagine how they can screw up the process in fraud and corruption. Most cases like that never get prosecuted because despite their being evidence the prosecutor knows that they will pull such tricks and manage to eliminate that evidence and then the case will fail, and they will loose their chance. It is sickening. These people are scum and blatantly break any law they feel like because they know they have the money to buy their way out of trouble.

Of course that is not to mention that those few who do get put away, are always out long before they are supposed to be. It helps having the high profile friends they have it really speeds up that parole and early release paperwork.