The Problem With Primaries

[Meshakhad]

My problem with the US primary system is that the states determine the order themselves. So Iowa and New Hampshire get disproportionate influence.

My suggestion is to mark each Monday between January 1 and July 4 of election year as primaries, and assign the states at random. The assignments would be made at least 6 months in advance, possibly as much as a year, in order to give campaigns the time to set up operations in whichever states go first.

I do agree that the current system does encourage candidates to go hardcore during the primaries, and then moderate their positions during the general campaign. I don't really know of a way around it that would work in the current US political climate. Really, to get meaningful political reform in this area, the first step is to break up both the Democratic and Republican parties.

[Old Viking]

If the electorate would name me national dictator, I would be very, very nice to everyone.  Just tossin' that out there.

[rookie]

Centrism is not a political stance, just like right and left (heavily associated with conservative and liberal or fascist and Marxist). Centrism is completely unlike those 'stances' in that it does not have an ideological foundation. In my view, that makes it less important and, frankly, unserious.

If those are the views you're holding, it's probably because someone has been lying to you. And you are forming your opinions based on those lies.

I am a centrist. It is my belief that the "right" way to fix whatever is a balance of one extreme and another. I wouldn't go so far to say it's unimportant, but it certainly doesn't garner any money or press time. It doesn't make for good Sunday morning television. But that's not the same as unimportant.

[Sour Grapes]

Centrism is not a political stance, just like right and left (heavily associated with conservative and liberal or fascist and Marxist). Centrism is completely unlike those 'stances' in that it does not have an ideological foundation. In my view, that makes it less important and, frankly, unserious.

If those are the views you're holding, it's probably because someone has been lying to you. And you are forming your opinions based on those lies.

I am a centrist. It is my belief that the "right" way to fix whatever is a balance of one extreme and another. I wouldn't go so far to say it's unimportant, but it certainly doesn't garner any money or press time. It doesn't make for good Sunday morning television. But that's not the same as unimportant.

I tend to think that Centerism is the acknowledgment that both sides have good ideas, and shitty ideas.  And the practice of winnowing out the good ideas from bad and implementing THEM, instead of having the good ideas attached to batshit insane ones.

[Joey]

I tend to think that Centerism is the acknowledgment that both sides have good ideas, and shitty ideas.  And the practice of winnowing out the good ideas from bad and implementing THEM, instead of having the good ideas attached to batshit insane ones.

That mindset seems to me like just inventing (or acknowledging) a new dimension to the political spectrum. Like when some people decided they liked the freedoms promoted by each side of the right/left spectrum, so they invented the two-dimensional spectrum to properly describe libertarianism and distinguish it from authoritarianism.

When someone takes a centrist political stance, to me it almost always seems like they just want to play it safe so they can remain socially acceptable by the most number of people. And sure, they end up staying in safe territory, but they tend not to have much passion for any causes and never do anything truly revolutionary.

Everyone who has significantly changed the world for the better was an extremist at some point, before their ideas were understood and accepted as being better ideas. I mean, democracy? Really? Everyone in a country voting for who their leader should be? This was a radical idea during the time of monarchies, but today is accepted as being a better way of doing things. Of course, everyone who has significantly changed the world for the worse was probably also an extremist, and the fear of that is why I think many people stick to centrism.

[Captain Jack Harkness]

Joey, centrist ideas aren't always the most popular or "socially acceptable" because they're the reasonable choice, but the issues are too divisive for most people to see beyond ideology.

[Lt. Fred]

Centrism is not a political stance, just like right and left (heavily associated with conservative and liberal or fascist and Marxist). Centrism is completely unlike those 'stances' in that it does not have an ideological foundation. In my view, that makes it less important and, frankly, unserious.

If those are the views you're holding, it's probably because someone has been lying to you. And you are forming your opinions based on those lies.

I am a centrist. It is my belief that the "right" way to fix whatever is a balance of one extreme and another. I wouldn't go so far to say it's unimportant, but it certainly doesn't garner any money or press time. It doesn't make for good Sunday morning television. But that's not the same as unimportant.

Which views are 'lies', sorry?

Again, I don't think that's a substantial view. An ideology is a set of beliefs about the nature of society, the preferred system of making policy, the objectives of that policy and- finally- the best policy to achieve those objectives. It appears that centrism is identical to liberalism or conservatism except for a formula approach to the last part (where BP= ~ L + C/2).

If I'm wrong, I apologise and I'd like to have it pointed out how in any other way centrism is a distinctive ideology.

Centrism is not a political stance, just like right and left (heavily associated with conservative and liberal or fascist and Marxist). Centrism is completely unlike those 'stances' in that it does not have an ideological foundation. In my view, that makes it less important and, frankly, unserious.

If those are the views you're holding, it's probably because someone has been lying to you. And you are forming your opinions based on those lies.

I am a centrist. It is my belief that the "right" way to fix whatever is a balance of one extreme and another. I wouldn't go so far to say it's unimportant, but it certainly doesn't garner any money or press time. It doesn't make for good Sunday morning television. But that's not the same as unimportant.

I tend to think that Centerism is the acknowledgment that both sides have good ideas, and shitty ideas.  And the practice of winnowing out the good ideas from bad and implementing THEM, instead of having the good ideas attached to batshit insane ones.

It is possible to remain a liberal while adopting those initially conservative ideas you regard as positive.

[Joey]

Joey, centrist ideas aren't always the most popular or "socially acceptable" because they're the reasonable choice, but the issues are too divisive for most people to see beyond ideology.

Well in that case staying silent is the most acceptable, and the way to avoid the issue is to claim some kind of middle ground.

[Captain Jack Harkness]

Joey, centrist ideas aren't always the most popular or "socially acceptable" because they're the reasonable choice, but the issues are too divisive for most people to see beyond ideology.

Well in that case staying silent is the most acceptable, and the way to avoid the issue is to claim some kind of middle ground.

Oh baloney.  It's not "avoiding the issue."  It's seeing that the extreme positions are full of shit.

Why the hell should I stay silent if I'm trying to be reasonable about controversial issues?

[Joey]

Joey, centrist ideas aren't always the most popular or "socially acceptable" because they're the reasonable choice, but the issues are too divisive for most people to see beyond ideology.

Well in that case staying silent is the most acceptable, and the way to avoid the issue is to claim some kind of middle ground.

Oh baloney.  It's not "avoiding the issue."  It's seeing that the extreme positions are full of shit.

Why the hell should I stay silent if I'm trying to be reasonable about controversial issues?

I'm saying taking a middle ground is a form of, or alternative to, staying silent. It's like how people say don't discuss politics in the work place. If some hot-button issue comes up, people will generally try to avoid identifying themselves with one extreme or the other, because they don't want to alienate themselves with half the people in the office. They want to be liked by everyone, so they either don't talk about it, or they'll claim some kind of middle / central ground.

I know people who are hardcore libs and hardcore conservatives, but when they get together socially, amazingly they're all centrists.

[Captain Jack Harkness]

While it's not a black-and-white thing, being centrist to me is about getting into fights with both sides when I see them being rabid morons.

I see a lot of rabid morons on FB.

[rookie]

I'm sorry Fred. I must have not worded that well. I never meant to accuse your views of being lies. Nor have intentionally claimed a well balanced approach as a specific ideology. If it came out that way l appologize. Rereading, you did say it's a poor ideology. Fair enough.

If you'd like, l can go inyo more detail or better explain myself when l can get to a computer. Typing on a phone is a serious PITA and there's a lot l can't do right now.

[Lt. Fred]

The number one claim of centrism seems to me to be that both conservatives and liberals are all dishonest. They don't seriously think that, say, a public health insurance program is a good idea, or a three strikes law is a good idea. That's just posturing. Everyone KNOWS that we need to cut the shit out of Medicare and Social Security but raise taxes on the 'Job Creators' a bit to offset that. The only reason I won't say it is because I'm unSerious, where Serious is defined as people who believe that.

I think that view is uncharitable. In fact, I think that view is bullshit. People typically believe things because they have honestly come to that conclusion after reasonable inquiry, I certainly have. If you disagree about my views on policy X, we can talk about it rationally. But I'm not wrong because I'm 'extreme'.

In fact, I think the opposite is true. 'Centrists' are often people who, for professional reasons, have to criticise both parties equally, while also maintaining an air of intellectual superiority. The best way to do that is to believe ~ L + C/2. You won't find anything remotely near the truth like that, of course, but who gives a shit?

I'm not necessarily accusing you of that rookie, though I very much am B Man.

[Captain Jack Harkness]

Fred, I DO accuse both sides of being dishonest, and shamelessly so.  Often facts are distorted on both sides to "make a point" or "support an idea."  There's nothing wrong with selling an idea like public health insurance or a three strike rule.  There's everything wrong with being disingenuous in your arguments.  The means in these cases do NOT justify the ends.

It's not just a problem with being disingenuous in representing your side, either.  There's also the problem with misrepresenting the other side.  It's easier to argue for something if you think you can completely discredit the other side and their arguments without actually addressing them properly.

I'm pretty sure this is debate class basics (not that I ever took debate class).

You know what the real killer about being able to see the bullshit on both sides?  As soon as you call someone out on their bullshit, it means you're part of "the other side" or the "enemy."  Shit.  SKEPTICISM can even be met with venom if the person is  idealistic enough.  Extremes cause people to see everything as "black and white."  For those on the extremes of an issue, everything on that issue is a zero-sum game.  False dichotomies abound.  I don't do that shit.

[Lt. Fred]

Extremes cause people to see everything as "black and white." 

Holding extreme views always cause people to see everything in black and white?