Author Topic: Best Political Cartoons  (Read 1653112 times)

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Offline Vanto

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #6255 on: May 15, 2020, 09:43:33 pm »
https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/opinion-gun-control-handguns-1.5532173

Well, that was a load of bullshit. And a lot of the commenters seem to agree with me.
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Offline DarkPhoenix

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #6256 on: May 15, 2020, 11:39:46 pm »
Well said Justin, well said.  Better gun laws are needed to prevent more tragedies like we had recently.

What laws would have prevented the tragedy in Nova Scotia? And does what happened justify screwing over law-abiding citizens?

What the fuck do you need an assault rifle for?

Offline Skybison

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #6257 on: May 16, 2020, 12:39:35 am »
And a lot of the commenters seem to agree with me.

You know the kind of reputation internet comments have right?

Offline niam2023

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #6258 on: May 16, 2020, 02:18:42 am »
And I am sure Vanto that "CuckSlayer1488"'s opinion is an absolutely vital one which sheds a lot of light on the legality and process of these laws.
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Offline Eiki-mun

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #6259 on: May 16, 2020, 07:32:07 am »
https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/opinion-gun-control-handguns-1.5532173

Well, that was a load of bullshit. And a lot of the commenters seem to agree with me.

Is there any specific statement or set of statements In the article you can argue against? Remember, this is a Canadian article about a Canadian law, so no right to bear arms here.
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Offline Vanto

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #6260 on: May 17, 2020, 01:19:08 am »
Well said Justin, well said.  Better gun laws are needed to prevent more tragedies like we had recently.

What laws would have prevented the tragedy in Nova Scotia? And does what happened justify screwing over law-abiding citizens?

What the fuck do you need an assault rifle for?

The idea that anything should be banned because there is no "need" for it is irrational and undemocratic.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/opinion-gun-control-handguns-1.5532173

Well, that was a load of bullshit. And a lot of the commenters seem to agree with me.

Is there any specific statement or set of statements In the article you can argue against? Remember, this is a Canadian article about a Canadian law, so no right to bear arms here.

The right to bear arms is an inherent human right, not some privilege granted by governments.

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There is no conceivable reason why an ordinary person needs to own a handgun. No reason whatsoever.

Apparently, needing a gun to defend oneself is inconceivable to this guy. Canada is a big country, and there are a lot of areas where it could take the police hours to respond to a call for help. And that's before you get into the questionable decisions the RCMP made before and during this tragedy.

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Likewise, the term "shooting yourself in the foot" is not just a metaphor. Military medics know well that when you draw a pistol in a panic, the first round sometimes goes through your foot. Or an innocent bystander. If you keep it tucked into your waistband, it will go through something else, but that's another story.

Because no civilian has any idea of what proper trigger discipline is.

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The more guns in society, the more gun deaths.

Statistics say otherwise.

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Legal guns have a way of being stolen and becoming illegal.

You mean like the 173 guns reported stolen from the Canadian police between 2005 and 2019? And keep in mind: those are just the ones known to have been stolen.

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And even a law-abiding gun owner can cross over to the dark side under stress, delusion and paranoia.

Yeah, let's restrict people's rights based on what they might do in the future. That's not authoritarian at all!

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People who rave about owning these devices of death are often referred to as "gun enthusiasts." This makes about as much sense as "poison gas enthusiasts" or "land mine enthusiasts." Collecting and slavering over devices which are primarily designed to kill people is not normal.

Why do you prefer ad hominem attacks over statistical analysis? Could it be that you'd lose if you focused on the facts?

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A suggested scenario:

1. A total and absolute ban on handgun sales, and on handgun ownership by private citizens. (With long prison terms for violation.)
2. Restriction of long guns to bolt-action rifles and limited-magazine shotguns.
3. Firm enforcement of minimum sentences for possession of any restricted weapon, and even more stringent penalties for anyone committing a crime with a firearm.
4. Exemptions, under strict controls, where subsistence hunting is a way of life.

OK then, what will these laws do about all the illegal guns already on the streets? Or those being smuggled in? Would these laws have done anything to prevent the tragedy?

Not to mention that's a tall order. 1 in 4 Canadian households own at least one gun, and Canada has over 13 million guns in total. The idea that guns aren't important in Canada and can be banned en masse without causing major problems is hopelessly naive. Doing this would be very expensive, and probably wouldn't actually accomplish anything. That money could be put to much better use getting the economy started again.

All this for something that's an infinitesimally small cause of death in Canada. Only around 165 firearm homicides occur each year in Canada according to Statistics Canada. Almost all of those are gang-related and use illegal firearms. In comparison, drunk driving kills at least 1,250 people in Canada every year according to MADD Canada. That's the most drunk driving deaths per capita in the developed world. Maybe you should try prohibition, hosehead. Didn't work down here, but considering you're so sure you can get a gun ban to work despite the many times they've failed, you might have better luck with it.

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Add to this a heightened border vigilance against guns coming from the United States, and not only will gun crime decrease, so will accidental deaths and suicides.

Why are you treating this like an afterthought? This should be prioritized over gun restrictions, if they are to be considered at all. Imagine what you are allowed to do being determined not by your own conduct, but by the actions of criminals over whom you have no control.
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Offline Id82

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #6261 on: May 17, 2020, 09:22:23 am »
Quote

The right to bear arms is an inherent human right, not some privilege granted by governments.


Well in Canada it isn't. Canada has really strict gun laws requiring you to attain a license depending on what kind of firearm you want to purchase. Which requires you to take the Canada's firearms safety course. As well as pass a psychiatric evaluation and a full on background check. Every gun you buy has a 28 day waiting period. The only guns that don't require a license are hunting rifles, but hunting also has it's own rules and regulations. So the right to own a gun is not guaranteed which is why Canada has a really low fire arm homicide rate. Two per one hundred thousand people than it's neighbor down south.

Now I agree that banning fifteen hundred types of guns is a bit extreme. When the real problem is smuggling guns in from the US.
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Offline Skybison

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #6262 on: May 17, 2020, 10:23:31 am »
The idea that anything should be banned because there is no "need" for it is irrational and undemocratic.

That is not true.  If the item in question potentially places others at risk or is otherwise harmful to society/the world and is not needed by it's owner, then the rights of others not to be put in danger is more important.  To what extent this applies to guns is debatable but it is not undemocratic or irrational to place Sarah's right to live above Bob's right to property.

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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #6263 on: May 17, 2020, 10:31:04 am »
Quote
The right to bear arms is an inherent human right, not some privilege granted by governments.

...You realize this isn't the finale of Moral Orel and America isn't the only country on Earth, right?
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Offline DarkPhoenix

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #6264 on: May 17, 2020, 01:16:04 pm »
The idea that anything should be banned because there is no "need" for it is irrational and undemocratic.

Congrats, you're about a step away from authoritarianism.  After all, if anyone should be able to HAVE anything, how long before people start thinking they should be able to DO anything?  That slope's not as slippery as it should be...

And I would argue that a constant drive to own weapons designed to murder human beings is itself irrational...

Offline Askold

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #6265 on: May 17, 2020, 01:34:54 pm »
The only rights human beings have are those granted by nations and UN. There is no natural truth that can back up a "right." Governments and legal systems can back up and uphold the rights but only the ones that the nation has agreed upon (and occasionally due to corruption even those are violated.)

Let's take that "right to bear arms" as an example. There are plenty of countries that have no such right for citizens and in fact ownership of firearms has limitations that differ from those in USA. Actually, even in USA the states have differences in how that particular right is interpreted. There is no law of physics that would prevent any country, even USA, from changing laws to violate that "right" as we can see from the fact that USA has and continues to strip people of the right to bear arms.

You can argue that thing X is something that should be a human right and possibly even get UN to ratify it or at least your country to update their constitution (if they have any) to mention that right, but even that is evidence that the rights aren't something that people or nations universally agree on.

It is my pet peeve when random people claim that just because a bunch of agnostics and religious people wrote down that they think the rights are granted from God, that it would mean that this is some sort of biblical truth. Even other Christian countries disagree on minor details of human rights. Heck, there are several human rights that USA does not uphold despite nearly every country in the world agreeing on them.
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Offline davedan

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #6266 on: May 17, 2020, 08:45:27 pm »
Fuck I love Garrison but I don't think he knows what tilting at windmills actually means:

(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 08:49:42 pm by davedan »

Offline Vanto

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #6267 on: May 19, 2020, 08:06:39 pm »
Quote

The right to bear arms is an inherent human right, not some privilege granted by governments.


Well in Canada it isn't. Canada has really strict gun laws requiring you to attain a license depending on what kind of firearm you want to purchase. Which requires you to take the Canada's firearms safety course. As well as pass a psychiatric evaluation and a full on background check. Every gun you buy has a 28 day waiting period. The only guns that don't require a license are hunting rifles, but hunting also has it's own rules and regulations. So the right to own a gun is not guaranteed which is why Canada has a really low fire arm homicide rate. Two per one hundred thousand people than it's neighbor down south.

Now I agree that banning fifteen hundred types of guns is a bit extreme. When the real problem is smuggling guns in from the US.

Just because Canada doesn't recognize it as a human right doesn't mean it's not a human right.

The idea that anything should be banned because there is no "need" for it is irrational and undemocratic.

That is not true.  If the item in question potentially places others at risk or is otherwise harmful to society/the world and is not needed by it's owner, then the rights of others not to be put in danger is more important.  To what extent this applies to guns is debatable but it is not undemocratic or irrational to place Sarah's right to live above Bob's right to property.

"Those who would give up everyone else's essential safety  to purchase a little temporary liberty deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Well then, maybe Canada really should ban alcohol. Nobody needs to get drunk, and as I discussed earlier, drunk driving kills far more Canadians than gun violence.

Quote
The right to bear arms is an inherent human right, not some privilege granted by governments.

...You realize this isn't the finale of Moral Orel and America isn't the only country on Earth, right?

I never saw Moral Orel.

The idea that anything should be banned because there is no "need" for it is irrational and undemocratic.

Congrats, you're about a step away from authoritarianism.  After all, if anyone should be able to HAVE anything, how long before people start thinking they should be able to DO anything?  That slope's not as slippery as it should be...

So granting people the freedom to have or do what they want... is authoritarian? Huh?

And I would argue that a constant drive to own weapons designed to murder human beings is itself irrational...

You're entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't give you the right to arbitrarily decide what other people can and can't do. I consider the desire to smoke tobacco and marijuana irrational, but I don't want to force people to give up their smoking habits. What I do want is to keep said smoking habits from hurting other people.

The only rights human beings have are those granted by nations and UN. There is no natural truth that can back up a "right." Governments and legal systems can back up and uphold the rights but only the ones that the nation has agreed upon (and occasionally due to corruption even those are violated.)

Let's take that "right to bear arms" as an example. There are plenty of countries that have no such right for citizens and in fact ownership of firearms has limitations that differ from those in USA. Actually, even in USA the states have differences in how that particular right is interpreted. There is no law of physics that would prevent any country, even USA, from changing laws to violate that "right" as we can see from the fact that USA has and continues to strip people of the right to bear arms.

You can argue that thing X is something that should be a human right and possibly even get UN to ratify it or at least your country to update their constitution (if they have any) to mention that right, but even that is evidence that the rights aren't something that people or nations universally agree on.

It is my pet peeve when random people claim that just because a bunch of agnostics and religious people wrote down that they think the rights are granted from God, that it would mean that this is some sort of biblical truth. Even other Christian countries disagree on minor details of human rights. Heck, there are several human rights that USA does not uphold despite nearly every country in the world agreeing on them.

Your logic is, frankly, warped and terrifying. You don't have to be religious to agree that humans are inherently deserving of rights that cannot be taken away except by due process of law. What's the alternative? That governments can arbitrarily take away freedoms from large masses of people? Man, fuck that shit.
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Offline Id82

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #6268 on: May 19, 2020, 11:07:51 pm »
Quote

The right to bear arms is an inherent human right, not some privilege granted by governments.


Well in Canada it isn't. Canada has really strict gun laws requiring you to attain a license depending on what kind of firearm you want to purchase. Which requires you to take the Canada's firearms safety course. As well as pass a psychiatric evaluation and a full on background check. Every gun you buy has a 28 day waiting period. The only guns that don't require a license are hunting rifles, but hunting also has it's own rules and regulations. So the right to own a gun is not guaranteed which is why Canada has a really low fire arm homicide rate. Two per one hundred thousand people than it's neighbor down south.

Now I agree that banning fifteen hundred types of guns is a bit extreme. When the real problem is smuggling guns in from the US.

Just because Canada doesn't recognize it as a human right doesn't mean it's not a human right.

What the fuck are you talking about? The shooting spree that were referring to took place in Canada. There's no right to bear arms in Canada and firearms are heavily regulated. Your argument makes as much sense as saying Just because (insert country) doesn't recognize not obeying speed limits as a human right doesn't mean it's not a human right.

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Well then, maybe Canada really should ban alcohol. Nobody needs to get drunk, and as I discussed earlier, drunk driving kills far more Canadians than gun violence.


Well being that fire arms are harder to obtain in Canada of course drunk driving kills more people. But there are also these things called laws and regulations put on alcohol consumption and operating a motor vehicles which punish offenders harshly and hold people accountable. Laws that if they were not in place would make driving completely dangerous, since anyone could just do what they want. Laws that are preventing even more deaths from happening.  Laws and regulations that a lot of fire arm advocates don't want or want removed to prevent fire arm safety.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 08:28:12 pm by Id82 »
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #6269 on: May 20, 2020, 12:08:39 am »
I looked through what is probably the most definitive declaration of human rights yet composed.

Maybe I missed it, but could you please point me to where it says that people have a right to own guns?
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