Author Topic: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo  (Read 55250 times)

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Offline Askold

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #90 on: July 22, 2014, 11:47:38 pm »
It is not about "defending islamists." The outrage here is over the fact that Israel IS targeting civilians by bombing Gaza.

No one here says they want Hamas to shoot rockets at Israel or to send their kids as suicide bombers, we are simply saying that Israel should not be indiscriminately bombing a city. The estimated casualties are already over 500 with 100 children killed by this attack. That certainly seems like Israel is targeting civilians.

If the so called Palestinians loved their children more than they hated Jews, then maybe there could be peace.

a) Palestinians HAVE occasionally tried to get peace and some of the civilians would like to see the agression end but when Israel keeps pushing them it is not suprising that many of them wish to push back.

b) "so called Palestinians?" Well what should they be called if not Palestinians?
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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #91 on: July 22, 2014, 11:59:19 pm »
Seriously, are people blaming Israel here? Sure, I don't like all their leaders or policies, but show me where in Likud's platform you can find the complete destruction of all Arabs.

The Party charter.

"The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel’s existence, security and national needs"

Palestinians have no rights. If they're angry about it, we're happy to bomb them flat.
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Offline Nemo

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #92 on: July 23, 2014, 12:16:43 am »
Seriously, are people blaming Israel here? Sure, I don't like all their leaders or policies, but show me where in Likud's platform you can find the complete destruction of all Arabs.

The Party charter.

"The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel’s existence, security and national needs"

Palestinians have no rights. If they're angry about it, we're happy to bomb them flat.

That's not what it says. The charter calls for the Palestinians to not have an independent state (which is admittedly extreme), but it only says they cannot infringe on Israel's national security and right to exist (which even many moderates Palestinians deny). I specifically asked for where in Likud's platform they called for the destruction of all Arabs (as in, killing them all for the crime of existing).
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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #93 on: July 23, 2014, 12:23:36 am »
Seriously, are people blaming Israel here? Sure, I don't like all their leaders or policies, but show me where in Likud's platform you can find the complete destruction of all Arabs.

The Party charter.

"The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel’s existence, security and national needs"

Palestinians have no rights. If they're angry about it, we're happy to bomb them flat.

That's not what it says. The charter calls for the Palestinians to not have an independent state (which is admittedly extreme), but it only says they cannot infringe on Israel's national security and right to exist (which even many moderates Palestinians deny). I specifically asked for where in Likud's platform they called for the destruction of all Arabs (as in, killing them all for the crime of existing).

Do you acknowledge that Likud's founding document denies Palestinians any substantive rights?
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

The party's name is the Democratic Party. It has been since 1830. Please spell correctly.

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Offline Askold

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #94 on: July 23, 2014, 12:30:18 am »
What about the Israeli politicians who want to start a genocide?

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/16/371556/israel-must-kill-all-palestinian-mothers/ (Funny line from her wikipedia page: In response to the reaction to her comments, Shaked wrote an op-ed accusing the "militant, leftist propaganda machine" of "looking for every opportunity to make Israel the culprit".)

Do they have to write it down on their official party charter to be able to do it? Is there some kind of magical force that prevents a genocide unless it is specifically mentioned on the party charter?

Shaked was elected, her party has support and the party believes that: "Jews are divinely commanded to retain control over the Land of Israel." Which pretty much means that they have no desire to make peace with Palestinians as they wish to take control of the entire Israel region.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Nemo

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #95 on: July 23, 2014, 10:49:43 am »
Do you acknowledge that Likud's founding document denies Palestinians any substantive rights?
It does not. The charter acknowledges the right of Palestinians to self govern as long as they do not infringe on Israel's right to exist. Seeing as how Likud was founded after Israel had fought (and won) several wars to defend their own existence, the denial of the Palestinian right to a sovereign government was merely a response to the reality of just who they were dealing with.

Same goes for Israeli politicians who say occasional stupid stuff in emotional moments. It is simply a lie that Israel is responsible for the hatred their neighbors feel towards them. Every time Israel concedes (often giving back land they won in a war they didn't start), they are rewarded with more rocket attacks. The group which carries out those attacks is in turn rewarded by legitimate electoral victory. Hamas et al oppose Israel because their pedophile thug who founded their religion told them to hate the Jews. If they want a fight, I say sit back and let Israel give them a fight. I will enjoy it immensely.
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Offline ironbite

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #96 on: July 23, 2014, 11:43:03 am »
Oh wow. Wooooooow

Ironbite-there are depths to your ignorance that even angels fear to tread

Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #97 on: July 23, 2014, 01:19:50 pm »
Bearing in mind, Hamas/Palestine's rocket attacks are home made rockets that, while they can theoretically cause harm to people, can't even crack a frigging sidewalk, and they have no real way of aiming it.

Compare this to the building demolishing, precision-aimed bombs that Israel's been dropping on hospitals.
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Offline Meshakhad

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #98 on: July 23, 2014, 07:30:22 pm »
Seriously, are people blaming Israel here? Sure, I don't like all their leaders or policies, but show me where in Likud's platform you can find the complete destruction of all Arabs.

The Party charter.

"The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel’s existence, security and national needs"

Palestinians have no rights. If they're angry about it, we're happy to bomb them flat.

That's not what it says. The charter calls for the Palestinians to not have an independent state (which is admittedly extreme), but it only says they cannot infringe on Israel's national security and right to exist (which even many moderates Palestinians deny). I specifically asked for where in Likud's platform they called for the destruction of all Arabs (as in, killing them all for the crime of existing).

Do you acknowledge that Likud's founding document denies Palestinians any substantive rights?

I do. But I don't like Likud anyway. Vote for Kadima!
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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #99 on: July 23, 2014, 08:07:18 pm »
Do you acknowledge that Likud's founding document denies Palestinians any substantive rights?
It does not. The charter acknowledges the right of Palestinians to self govern as long as they do not infringe on Israel's right to exist.

No, it doesn't. It's quite clear. Palestinians have no right to self-govern, nor do they have a right to vote in Israeli elections or any protections under Israeli law. They are to remain stateless forever - or, preferably, go the hell away.

My personal favourite part is the reference to Israeli control of Palestinian ecology - which, again, shall be controlled by the IDF in the interests of Israel. Even better, unlike Palestine, Israel has actually acted upon these stated goals. No government of Israel has ever accepted the right of a Palestinian state to exist, unlike Fatah. This is why none currently does.

Quote
Every time Israel concedes (often giving back land they won in a war they didn't start), they are rewarded with more rocket attacks.

This is probably the greatest fraud of all (second maybe to your blaming of the Six-day and Yom Kippur Wars on the Palestinians). Israel has never given up one inch of land. Israel has yet to make a single concession to any other country, ever, even the Egyptians. Not one inch of Israeli land conquered through war has been acquired legitimately - indeed, the modern state system is founded entirely on the principle that all such land claims based on force are entirely illegitimate always everywhere and forever.

Quote
Hamas et al oppose Israel because their pedophile thug who founded their religion told them to hate the Jews. If they want a fight, I say sit back and let Israel give them a fight. I will enjoy it immensely.

This is straight uncut racism, the good stuff. Indeed, it is anti-semitism (since Palestinians are a semitic people).

Seriously, are people blaming Israel here? Sure, I don't like all their leaders or policies, but show me where in Likud's platform you can find the complete destruction of all Arabs.

The Party charter.

"The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel’s existence, security and national needs"

Palestinians have no rights. If they're angry about it, we're happy to bomb them flat.

That's not what it says. The charter calls for the Palestinians to not have an independent state (which is admittedly extreme), but it only says they cannot infringe on Israel's national security and right to exist (which even many moderates Palestinians deny). I specifically asked for where in Likud's platform they called for the destruction of all Arabs (as in, killing them all for the crime of existing).

Do you acknowledge that Likud's founding document denies Palestinians any substantive rights?

I do. But I don't like Likud anyway. Vote for Kadima!

That's nice. The current government, however, believes that Palestinians are subhumans. All policy is based on that principle. Palestinians have no rights to own land, so settlements are fine. Indeed, any response to the monstrous and violent occupation is illegitimate, since subhumans have no rights. Subhumans have no right to import food beyond their basic minimum requirement to maintain existence, much like a dog you don't like much. Even then that may be excessive. And if we choose, we can bomb them with illegal weapons all day long. Murder is only a crime when committed against people, not animals.
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Offline Nemo

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #100 on: July 23, 2014, 11:36:34 pm »
Quote
This is straight uncut racism, the good stuff. Indeed, it is anti-semitism (since Palestinians are a semitic people).
No. Just, no. While I may hold negative views on a certain religion, I hold no such views towards people based on race or ethnicity. My disdain for Hamas is not because they are Arabic, but because they hold a toxic religious ideology which treats women as property and any nonconformists as enemies to be slain. I have avoided making personal attacks so far, but when you pull the race card (inappropriately), you have lost.

As for the comment about Israel never giving back any land, that is false. Israel has given back the Sinai Peninsula.
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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #101 on: July 24, 2014, 12:40:34 am »
Quote
This is straight uncut racism, the good stuff. Indeed, it is anti-semitism (since Palestinians are a semitic people).
As for the comment about Israel never giving back any land, that is false. Israel has given back the Sinai Peninsula.

When was Israel granted the Sinai Peninsula?
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Offline Ironchew

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #102 on: July 24, 2014, 01:27:13 am »
Quote
This is straight uncut racism, the good stuff. Indeed, it is anti-semitism (since Palestinians are a semitic people).
No. Just, no. While I may hold negative views on a certain religion, I hold no such views towards people based on race or ethnicity. My disdain for Hamas is not because they are Arabic, but because they hold a toxic religious ideology which treats women as property and any nonconformists as enemies to be slain. I have avoided making personal attacks so far, but when you pull the race card (inappropriately), you have lost.

I agree that you weren't aiming that statement at an entire ethnicity, but the context makes it dubiously difficult to distinguish the two. At least in the context of Israel blockading and brutalizing an entire nation (not just its leaders!), what they are doing is indefensible and I find your attempts to defend Israel to be morally repugnant.

It may not be racism, and I do agree with you about Islam's vile teachings (you'll find more of the same in Judaism and Christianity), but Israel is oppressing an entire nation and you are vastly oversimplifying the concerns of an occupied people. Historical revisionism and racism both have nasty consequences -- you should carefully consider the things you are saying about Israel and how that matches up with Israel's actions.
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Offline Mechtaur

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #103 on: July 24, 2014, 02:32:08 am »
I do. But I don't like Likud anyway. Vote for Kadima!

>Implying Hatnuah isn't superior.

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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #104 on: July 24, 2014, 11:58:04 pm »
Israel uses Palestinians as human shields

http://www.haaretz.com/mobile/.premium-1.530993?v=D5C84F8353B58C29BFB6FFE8B113F0CB

Israel often targets civilian houses it does not suspect of being used as arms dumps. Obviously Israel routinely claims that Hamas is using those houses as arms dumps anyway.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/israelgaza-un-must-impose-arms-embargo-and-mandate-international-investigation-civilian-death-t
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

The party's name is the Democratic Party. It has been since 1830. Please spell correctly.

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