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Proof of Purgatory

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Jacob Harrison:

--- Quote from: Tolpuddle Martyr on November 25, 2018, 01:26:09 am ---
--- Quote from: Jacob Harrison on November 24, 2018, 04:01:56 pm ---
--- Quote from: Tolpuddle Martyr on November 24, 2018, 03:50:32 pm ---It's not proof of purgatory and neither are your smudges, another reading of the (vague) passage is that it's downright weird to hear orthodox Jews praying for resurrection making the whole mess a probable Christian invention.

You wouldn't know proof if it landed on your pointy head!

--- End quote ---
It proves that there are types of sinners who can be loosed from their sins after death, proving that those types of sinners are in a state that is neither heaven nor hell.

--- End quote ---
Heaven & hell-not part of Judaism, they're part of a Christian worldview.

And a vague reference to people who can be "loosed from sin" after death is not evidence of a postmortem waiting room. It's an RCC interpretation of a vague verse.

You don't know what "proof" means, but then you have very loose understanding of what most words mean.

--- End quote ---

This is from myjewishlearning.com.

--- Quote ---Only truly righteous souls ascend directly to the Garden of Eden, say the sages. The average person descends to a place of punishment and/or purification, generally referred to as Gehinnom.

The name is taken from a valley (Gei Hinnom) just south of Jerusalem, once used for child sacrifice by the pagan nations of Canaan (II Kings 23:10). Some view Gehinnom as a place of torture and punishment, fire and brimstone. Others imagine it less harshly, as a place where one reviews the actions of his/her life and repents for past misdeeds.

The soul’s sentence in Gehinnom is usually limited to a 12-month period of purgation before it takes its place in Olam Ha-Ba (MishnahEduyot 2:9, Shabbat 33a). This 12-month limit is reflected in the yearlong mourning cycle and the recitation of the Kaddish (the memorial prayer for the dead).

Only the utterly wicked do not ascend to the Garden of Eden at the end of this year. Sources differ on what happens to these souls at the end of their initial time of purgation. Some say that the wicked are utterly destroyed and cease to exist, while others believe in eternal damnation (Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Law of Repentance, 3:5-6).

--- End quote ---

That shows that the Jews believe in purgatory and they pray for souls there similar to Catholics and some believe in eternal damnation.

Tolpuddle Martyr:
Uh, no it does not show that Jews hold to Catholic doctrine. That is absolutely demented. It shows an interpretation of the Torah among many others. I'm reasonably sure if you asked the Orthodox Jews who ran the site if they believed in the Catholic doctrine of purgatory they'd look at you as if you were as mad as a Jacob Harrison.

Jacob Harrison:

--- Quote from: Tolpuddle Martyr on November 25, 2018, 06:30:17 am ---Uh, no it does not show that Jews hold to Catholic doctrine. That is absolutely demented. It shows an interpretation of the Torah among many others. I'm reasonably sure if you asked the Orthodox Jews who ran the site if they believed in the Catholic doctrine of purgatory they'd look at you as if you were as mad as a Jacob Harrison.

--- End quote ---

How is their belief in souls undergoing purification for their sins in Gehinnom and their prayers for them not similar to the Catholic doctrine of purgatory? What is the difference?

Tolpuddle Martyr:
I'll grant you there are many similarities in these entirely made up fantasy locales.

Nobody but you cares!

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