FSTDT Forums
Community => Politics and Government => Topic started by: Askold on October 14, 2019, 03:11:46 am
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https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/13/kurds-assad-syria-russia-putin-turkey-genocide/?fbclid=IwAR0SZ438wF1NlvllhgHmC2AIt3E007_Gf4C7iKOC5wWY-YlxJwtUN_7c4dE
TL;DR after being abandoned by USA the Kurds and seeing as EU and NATO are only using slow and ineffectual diplomatic means, the Kurds have decided to ally with people who can help them immediately: Assad and Putin. It's not like they trust them but an ally who might later stab you in the back is not as bad as the enemy that is currently trying to commit genocide against your people.
We are seeing a war in Syria where a NATO country is fighting against forces backed up by Russia. Time to adjust the doomsday clock again.
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Thanks Trump.
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And he won't do shit because Errodad has two Trump Towers in Istanbul.
Ironbite-IMPEACH THE FUCKER!
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Last time I checked, there's discussions about suspending Turkey from NATO, because this is ethnic cleansing, and the other countries don't want to have any part in it. And would it surprise anybody for Erdogan to switch allegiances to work with Russia instead?
Meanwhile, captured ISIS agents are escaping and/or being freed, which means this idiotic move by Donald the Doofus probably brings ISIS back from the dead. Congrats, Trump, you are the father of ISIS now!
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Last time I checked, there's discussions about suspending Turkey from NATO, because this is ethnic cleansing, and the other countries don't want to have any part in it. And would it surprise anybody for Erdogan to switch allegiances to work with Russia instead?
Meanwhile, captured ISIS agents are escaping and/or being freed, which means this idiotic move by Donald the Doofus probably brings ISIS back from the dead. Congrats, Trump, you are the father of ISIS now!
The thing is, there are Kurdish separatists in Turkey, and some of them are terrorists, and they very likely are getting some support from Syrian Kurds.
So Turkey has a legitimate national security concern here.
As for being the father of ISIS... no, that makes him the god of ISIS, since only gods can bring people back from the dead.
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It would probably help the region to have an autonomous Kurdish state established across Northern Syrian and Iraq but no one but the Kurds wants that.
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It would probably help the region to have an autonomous Kurdish state established across Northern Syrian and Iraq but no one but the Kurds wants that.
Very possibly, but the Kurds have been fucked over by their allies again and again, despite being among the fiercest and bravest fighters against terrorist groups. US troops are saying that they didn't fight alongside the Kurds; they would point out where the enemy was, and the Kurds would attack while the US troops stayed behind the nearby hill.
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"But remember, The Donald's a Very Stable Genius who's playing 4D chess. I'm sure this was all part of our God-Emperor's plan and everything will turn out tremendously" - Trump stans, probably.
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"The LEFT are all NPCs though! Just ignore the fact that we repeat anything and everything Dear Leader says, automatically agree with him, and react violently to opposition or protest."
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Well, it looks like Trump followed through on his threat of sanctions:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/trump-impose-sanctions-turkey-191014195833562.html (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/trump-impose-sanctions-turkey-191014195833562.html)
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The steel tariff is not going to hurt Turkey at all but I suppose it serves as a soft start. The trade deal going on hold may be more noticeable.
Trump has also suggested withdrawing nukes from Turkey, which is something that only benefits Russia.
EU is also canceling deals (particularly weapon shipments) and talking about economic sanctions.
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Trump has responded by sending this letter to Erdogan:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHBmdVLW4AIk3IT?format=jpg&name=small)
If it weren't such a horrible thing it would be hilarious. Almost as hilarious as the fact that this was published by Trump and not Erdogan laughing his ass off at him.
Imagine thinking this shows you in a good or strong light.
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...I'm at a loss for words. Hold on, I still need time to process this.
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Is that letter for real? It looks like it was typed out by a sixth grader. Also I can never understand his signature. How does that say Donald Trump?
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Is that letter for real? It looks like it was typed out by a sixth grader. Also I can never understand his signature. How does that say Donald Trump?
It's for real. And you're not the only one who doubted its authenticity; multiple news outlets had to ask the White House if that really was the official letter, because none of them could believe it.
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Is that letter for real? It looks like it was typed out by a sixth grader.
That's points for authenticity from where I'm sitting.
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And what was that great deal? Giving Turkey everything they wanted and giving the Kurds or the US nothing other than having a ceasefire so the Kurds can leave before Turkey rolls on in which the Turkish army is already violating.
The art of the deal at work.
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And what was that great deal? Giving Turkey everything they wanted and giving the Kurds or the US nothing other than having a ceasefire so the Kurds can leave before Turkey rolls on in which the Turkish army is already violating.
The art of the deal at work.
Donald insists every deal he makes is great, even when he's getting railroaded.
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Even when Trump thinks the best deal is him getting everything and his opponent getting nothing. That's not how deals work Donny.
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McConnell's introduced a resolution against Trump's withdrawal:
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/22/politics/mitch-mcconnell-resolution-syria-troops/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/22/politics/mitch-mcconnell-resolution-syria-troops/index.html)
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Remember: the only matter on which elected Republicans and Democrats alike are willing to denounce Trump is when he reduces the US military presence overseas.
This one just happens to be the one place where he gets criticism from the quarters who would otherwise agree with reducing said military presence because it involves the betrayal of promises made to an ally that's been continually dicked over by the West for a century.
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I think there are some very important lessons to be learned from this.
1. The power of the POTUS to act unilaterally on military and foreign policy (probably policy in general, now that I think about it) really should be checked. Trump's blunder has proven that the POTUS can't always be trusted to act in accordance with America's interests or basic human decency.
2. Other Western countries can't rely on the US alone to contribute significant ground forces in military operations. Had the UK, France, etc. also had a significant presence in Northeastern Syria, Trump's decision to withdraw wouldn't have had the consequences it did.
3. Refusing to stand up to or call out somebody just because your interests happen to align in some areas can and will come back to bite you. Trump's "allies" (read: sycophants) in Congress helped make the mess we're in.
4. Never rely on somebody who's proven to be as mercurial, reckless, irresponsible and inconsistent as Trump has.
On a related note, how do you feel about mental competence tests for politicians? Because after this, I really think they're a good idea.
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Who sets the test? My mind always jumps to the original purpose of IQ tests.
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Who sets the test? My mind always jumps to the original purpose of IQ tests.
After sleeping on it, I'm gonna say you're probably right.
In other news, many European leftists are rejecting the Kurds (https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/kurds-syria-trump-turkey-rojava-macedonia-greece-zizek-a9166206.html)... because they allied with America.
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Sorry in that article Zizek has not identified who these 'Leftist' Colleagues are, nor what amounts to 'Leftist' critical distance. There are a number of difficulties with framing a conversation like this:
1. Unnamed 'Leftist' colleagues reeks of apocrypha, Trump's Everyone is saying (which is just what he is thinking), or in Australia the perennial cabbie on the way into the city. It leaves you in doubt of whether such people exist.
2. Without naming them there characterisation as 'Leftist' is itself suspect. Reading US media (and political cartoons) there is a large subset in the US who consider Joe Biden left (or even radical left), whereas I think conventionally he would be considered centre right. The whole left right dichotomy is becoming increasingly less useful anyway where issues of populism, authoritarianism and ethnocentrism are becoming increasingly prevalent and can be the dominant force of an ideological group. For instance I would consider that Trump is more nativist than 'Right wing'.
3. It leaves you in doubt as to whether these colleagues have any institutional power so that they can effect foreign policy in their respective European countries. How many European countries have 'left' wing governments at the moment outside of Scandinavia. It does highlight the greater problem of inaction by Europe and indeed the EU against Turkey considering that it is one of their NATO allies. I would have thought that was a much worse indictment than simply contrarian academics (who remember court unpopular views).
I suppose the article does highlight something about the zeitgeist, in that as US imperialism is on the decline (the power of that imperialism has fallen markedly in the last 3 years), it will become less 'cool' to be anti-us imperialist.
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Well, according to Trump, al-Baghdadi's dead (https://www.newsweek.com/trump-approves-special-ops-raid-targeting-isis-leader-baghdadi-1467982). Great news if true, but I'm not holding my breath until it's confirmed.
Also, Trump seems to be fixated on Syria's oil fields (https://time.com/5710576/trump-oil-syria/).
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I just know we're going to see al-Baghdadi suddenly leap out and start singing "I am not dead yet!"
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I just know we're going to see al-Baghdadi suddenly leap out and start singing "I am not dead yet!"
CALIPH ABU BAKR AL-BAGHDADI IS STILL DEAD!
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I suppose he saw this as his opportunity to have a similar announcement like the one Obama did when Osama was killed.
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Last time I checked, there's discussions about suspending Turkey from NATO, because this is ethnic cleansing, and the other countries don't want to have any part in it. And would it surprise anybody for Erdogan to switch allegiances to work with Russia instead?
Meanwhile, captured ISIS agents are escaping and/or being freed, which means this idiotic move by Donald the Doofus probably brings ISIS back from the dead. Congrats, Trump, you are the father of ISIS now!
The thing is, there are Kurdish separatists in Turkey, and some of them are terrorists, and they very likely are getting some support from Syrian Kurds.
So Turkey has a legitimate national security concern here.
As for being the father of ISIS... no, that makes him the god of ISIS, since only gods can bring people back from the dead.
This goes into the whole "terrorist vs freedom fighter" debate honestly. Turkey is now essentially a dictatorship that's historically and increasingly shit to it's women and minorities and is actively suppressing dissidents. I feel like at a certain point the Kurds would be justified in not following laws. The only thing I can really condemn universally on a front like that would be killing innocents. Civilians should always be off-limits in conflicts like that.
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I suppose he saw this as his opportunity to have a similar announcement like the one Obama did when Osama was killed.
Yeah but Al Baghdadi doesn't have the same notoriety as Bin Laden. He's the second leader of ISIS and another will stand up and take his place.
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I suppose he saw this as his opportunity to have a similar announcement like the one Obama did when Osama was killed.
Yeah but Al Baghdadi doesn't have the same notoriety as Bin Laden. He's the second leader of ISIS and another will stand up and take his place.
I wouldn't put it past Trump for taking all the credit for this despite probably having no involvement in it whatsoever.
It will probably give him a little polling bump as he parades it around as a distraction, but the impeachment news will come trickling back in.
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He's probably hoping this'll wash away his blunder, and that his decision to keep troops in the oil fields will block Russia and the Syrian government. But he's already proven himself to be far too erratic and unpredictable to trust.
Not only was this a massive strategic blunder on Trump's part, it was also really bad from a self-preservation standpoint. Since the American government and public overwhelmingly supports the Kurds, his betrayal of them (and yes, it's specifically his betrayal, since he acted unilaterally) will do nothing but alienate people who might otherwise have supported him. You'd think he'd put a greater priority on optics, seeing as he's facing impeachment, but apparently even his sense of self-interest is starting to go.
Times like this I wish I had time travel and mind control powers.
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This will demoralize ISIS, but it won't stop Russia, Turkey or Syria.
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Oh, and Erdogan wants nukes (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/20/world/middleeast/erdogan-turkey-nuclear-weapons-trump.html). Wonderful.
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Well, according to Trump, al-Baghdadi's dead (https://www.newsweek.com/trump-approves-special-ops-raid-targeting-isis-leader-baghdadi-1467982). Great news if true, but I'm not holding my breath until it's confirmed.
Also, Trump seems to be fixated on Syria's oil fields (https://time.com/5710576/trump-oil-syria/).
And this whole op happened IN SPITE OF THE ORANGE PISS POT!
Ironbite-who'll still claim credit for it.
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Trump claims that he signed off on it and he didn't notify Congress that this was going to happen. He then spent his whole press conference constantly reminding people that Al Baghdadi died like a scared little baby and that Al Baghdadi was bigger than Bin laden ever was because Trump killed him.
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Al-Baghdadi's death is a significant blow to Daesh, to be sure, but it won't destroy the group. Daesh's members are committed to an ideology, rather than any particular individuals. So Trump's implications that this put the final nail in the coffin are premature at best.
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Have I cracked the code? Trump did claim that killing Al Baghdadi is more meaningful than killing Osama: https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-isis-al-baghdadis-death-more-significant-than-bin-ladens-2019-10?r=US&IR=T
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I still don't fully trust the news of Al-Bagdhadi's death. That dude has popped up again at least once after being declared "dead". Do we have a body?
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I still don't fully trust the news of Al-Bagdhadi's death. That dude has popped up again at least once after being declared "dead". Do we have a body?
They did DNA testing on his remains (https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-us-commandos-ided-a-mutilated-abu-bakr-al-baghdadi-so-quickly), so I'm pretty confident he's dead.
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I still don't fully trust the news of Al-Bagdhadi's death. That dude has popped up again at least once after being declared "dead". Do we have a body?
They did DNA testing on his remains (https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-us-commandos-ided-a-mutilated-abu-bakr-al-baghdadi-so-quickly), so I'm pretty confident he's dead.
Thanks. That legitimately assuages my fears about that shit.
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NGL, I half-expect Trump to write a book in a few years called Donald Trump's Art of the War: How I Personally Killed That ICE Guy.
In more serious news, the House advanced a bill imposing sanctions on Turkey (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/house-advances-bill-imposing-sanctions-turkey-syria-191029221534905.html), and also passed a resolution recognizing the Armenian genocide (https://www.baltimoresun.com/sns-bc-us--armenia-genocide-20191029-story.html).
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I'm sure that won't be taken up in the Senate.
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Yeah, not when they want to play footsie with as many dictatorships as possible, and pander to the alt-right, the President's VERY FINE PEOPLE.
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I'm sure that won't be taken up in the Senate.
What bills have the House passed that HAVE been taken up by the Senate? Moscow Mitch's plan is for nothing to happen for the next two years, and then run on "The Dem House hasn't done anything but impeachment because they're incompetent!"
And he hopes no one will remember his boasting about being "the Grim Reaper of the Senate"...
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So now some dude named Al Qurashi has taken the helm of ISIS. ISIS didn't die with Baghdadi and will continue to be a nuisance in that area of the world. At least the death of Bin Laden was symbolic. ISIS is a never ending battle.
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I'm sure that won't be taken up in the Senate.
What bills have the House passed that HAVE been taken up by the Senate? Moscow Mitch's plan is for nothing to happen for the next two years, and then run on "The Dem House hasn't done anything but impeachment because they're incompetent!"
And he hopes no one will remember his boasting about being "the Grim Reaper of the Senate"...
I think it was, specifically, the "Grim Reaper of progressive policies".
But, I mean, the Senate took up that War Powers Act resolution on Yemen. Trump vetoed it, since he's A-OK with genocide as long as the people doing it are putting money in his pocket, but they did put that on his desk.
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But, I mean, the Senate took up that War Powers Act resolution on Yemen. Trump vetoed it, since he's A-OK with genocide as long as the people doing it are putting money in his pocket, but they did put that on his desk.
Moscow Mitch lets bills he knows will fail pass to Trump so Trump can veto them and then Mitch can shrug and say "Well, we tried"...
Moscow Mitch has zero interest in actually passing anything. Even when the Republicans had the House too, they passed exactly one bill in two years.