Author Topic: terrorist attack in paris  (Read 14046 times)

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Offline nickiknack

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Re: terrorist attack in paris
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2015, 12:47:14 am »
Sadly that was the first thing that went through my mind, the possible backlash on the refugees, and the Muslim citizens, because we all know how the right wing likes to beat that horse to death.

Offline guizonde

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Re: terrorist attack in paris
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2015, 01:09:51 am »
this is a boon for the front national and the far right in general. shame, too. we've got refugees flooding in, and my coworkers are busy translating what they say to the concerned officials... :(
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Offline I am lizard

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Re: terrorist attack in paris
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2015, 01:18:23 am »
I'm geussing they'll be a bunch of "Muslims for peace" rallies to generate some positive PR.

Offline guizonde

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Re: terrorist attack in paris
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2015, 08:58:52 am »
off of the white house facebook page, found obama's press conference:

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"This is an attack not just on Paris, it’s an attack not just on the people of France, but this is an attack on all of humanity and the universal values that we share. We stand prepared and ready to provide whatever assistance that the government and the people of France need to respond. France is our oldest ally. The French people have stood shoulder to shoulder with the United States time and again. And we want to be very clear that we stand together with them in the fight against terrorism and extremism. Paris itself represents the timeless values of human progress. Those who think that they can terrorize the people of France or the values that they stand for are wrong. The American people draw strength from the French people’s commitment to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness. We are reminded in this time of tragedy that the bonds of liberté and égalité and fraternité are not only values that the French people care so deeply about, but they are values that we share. And those values are going to endure far beyond any act of terrorism or the hateful vision of those who perpetrated the crimes this evening. We’re going to do whatever it takes to work with the French people and with nations around the world to bring these terrorists to justice, and to go after any terrorist networks that go after our people."
—President Obama on the attacks in Paris
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Offline The_Queen

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Re: terrorist attack in paris
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2015, 09:52:23 am »
The question is, how long had this been planned?

i don't know. but i trust the french intelligence agencies to find out. for us laymen, it has been days at the earliest. that means weeks from the planned attack to the rumor mill. however, in a first world country that has prided itself as a bastion for immigrants and free people, this act is unacceptable. we should not be a target, but a beacon of hope. this makes me sick to my stomach.

i am having an angry moment, and that will be my understatement of the day.

I wouldn't go that far. France did outlaw wearing burqas, hijabs, and niqabs in 2010. Speaking as an anti-theist, it crosses a certain line to dictate to Islamic women, especially when those women are more than likely immigrants or first generations, that to practice their faith in public is a crime. And this is the tip of the iceberg as France has had a lot of anti-Islamic controversy as of late.

Terrorism and murder are never justified. Ever. And I consider this to be, at the moment, the worst terrorist attack since 9/11. But to ignore France's faults because France is the victim at this moment, in my opinion, serves to tacitly condone those faults.
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Offline guizonde

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Re: terrorist attack in paris
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2015, 10:13:32 am »
i was saying that from a historical standpoint. in the XXth century alone, france has accepted the boat people, the maghrebi, viets, thais, ukrainians, kosovars, poles, spaniards, and i can't think of anything else right now (please note that contemporary history is not my specialty). before that, we can count jews, catholics, muslims, germans, italians, scots, portuguese, africans, armenians, greeks, russians...

i won't delve into the controversies regarding burqas and religious garb. i've already covered it in this thread, that served as my first trial by fire on these boards.

in case you're busy, i can sum up the five pages as: france is anti-religious due to societal reasons, and it is a cultural shock. that's not to say that france isn't islamophobic (it is), but there's a reasoning behind it. the thread is seven months old, but i stand by what i wrote. you're free to disagree.
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Offline The_Queen

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Re: terrorist attack in paris
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2015, 10:18:51 am »
I remember that thread, and how you argued ad nauseaum that it's not islamophobic, it's about respect to a secular france, or something. My point is it's a gross over-generalization to say the "France is a bastion... for free people" and simultaneously ignore the violations of religious freedoms, especially religious freedoms by women. I do not see France as a bastion for free people when basic human rights are trampled on.
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Offline guizonde

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Re: terrorist attack in paris
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2015, 10:40:30 am »
you read diagonally then. i explicitely said that it was islamophobic (obviously). france is islamophobic, and i'll go further by saying (again) that france is anti-religious (with valid, if not good, reasons).

and to talk about human rights, there's freedom of religion and freedom from religion. it goes both ways.

more relevant to the topic at hand, however, is that right now, french racists and the far right are crawling out of the woodworks saying that it's the syrian refugees' fault. yes, somehow, while fleeing for their lives, they thought it'd be a good idea to blow up the capital of the host-country. this is not a conspiracy theory, that's a brain fart. namely because that's what the refugees were fleeing from in the first place.

oh, and guess what? the islamic state is behind it.

here's the guardian's take on the subject.

and now, the racistosphere is gonna blow up, because one of the terrorists had a syrian passport.

eta: oh, and i've just learned that my bandmate has a friend that died in the bataclan theater. took five bullets...
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 10:42:45 am by guizonde »
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: terrorist attack in paris
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2015, 10:51:19 am »
you read diagonally then. i explicitely said that it was islamophobic (obviously). france is islamophobic, and i'll go further by saying (again) that france is anti-religious (with valid, if not good, reasons).

and to talk about human rights, there's freedom of religion and freedom from religion. it goes both ways.

more relevant to the topic at hand, however, is that right now, french racists and the far right are crawling out of the woodworks saying that it's the syrian refugees' fault. yes, somehow, while fleeing for their lives, they thought it'd be a good idea to blow up the capital of the host-country. this is not a conspiracy theory, that's a brain fart. namely because that's what the refugees were fleeing from in the first place.

oh, and guess what? the islamic state is behind it.

here's the guardian's take on the subject.

and now, the racistosphere is gonna blow up, because one of the terrorists had a syrian passport.

eta: oh, and i've just learned that my bandmate has a friend that died in the bataclan theater. took five bullets...

Wow.  I'm sorry.

Offline The_Queen

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Re: terrorist attack in paris
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2015, 10:52:04 am »
You actually never said it was islamophobic. The closest you got was saying "it would be a boring thread if I said 'this is islamophobic' and left it at that." Conversely, you actually defended the laws repeatedly, going so far as to say "It's a religious symbol, and in a country that prides itself on its non-religiosity it can be seen as a mark of disrespect. nothing more. i don't go around shoving my atheism down people's throats (hell, aside from my views on religious garb, i think i'm pretty open-minded on different faiths), so i don't want anyone's views forced unto me." The takeaway is that such a law does not burden Muslims any more than non-Muslims in a secular country. And, if Muslims are not actually burdened by it more than anyone else, and if the law did not seek to target Muslims specifically, then it is hard to see how such a law could be Islamophobic.

And you are terribly off base with your freedom of religion/freedom from religion nuance. In fact, you make the same argument as the American right about LGBTQ people. A woman wearing a burqa on a bus is not shoving her faith down my throat. In fact, I would be shoving my faith down her throat to say she did not have such a right. Public shows of religion, in of of themselves, are not shoving religion down another's throat. What you're asking for is erasure from the public, which we all know is dangerous, short-sighted, and breeds resentment and misunderstanding. Of course the French right will be disgustingly opportunistic and want more of these laws burdening Muslims.
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Offline mellenORL

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Re: terrorist attack in paris
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2015, 10:57:22 am »
Damn, that video at The Guardian showing people getting shot as they run out the side doors and hang from second and third storey window ledges of Le Bataclan...
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Offline guizonde

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Re: terrorist attack in paris
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2015, 11:03:27 am »
Damn, that video at The Guardian showing people getting shot as they run out the side doors and hang from second and third storey window ledges of Le Bataclan...

imagine my facebook feed. a few of my friends and colleagues are in paris right now, and most heard the bombs and the bullets. combine that with amateur footage... my sister's snapchat blew up, and she actually puked after seeing so many snaps. at least her best friend is safe, although two streets from the bataclan.

all i can see is that this is going to have major repercussions on the international scale. i'm starting to worry about my friends in the military. they're reservists, but since the parisian reserves went to full alert status, it's not much of a stretch until the rest is called up.
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Offline Zygarde

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Re: terrorist attack in paris
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2015, 11:49:23 am »
So it seems ISIS is claiming responsibility for the attacks, color me not surprised.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/islamic-state-video-paris-attacks_564710e0e4b0603773492fc3

Offline ironbite

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Re: terrorist attack in paris
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2015, 11:53:14 am »
Oh do please take responsibility.  Then find out what that gets ya.

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Offline Zygarde

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Re: terrorist attack in paris
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2015, 11:58:21 am »
If this was a few years ago I would be all for the US kicking ISIS in their AK-47 waving Koran misrepresenting asses, but I got a cousin that might be sent to fight these guys. Never have I been so conflicted in how I want a group of horrible people dealt with.