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Community => Religion and Philosophy => Topic started by: Caitshidhe on April 16, 2013, 06:34:54 pm

Title: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: Caitshidhe on April 16, 2013, 06:34:54 pm
Boything's twin sister, Stache (so called because she has the most spectacular mustache I've ever seen on a woman and she's a shitty person so I have no problems being mean to/about her), got married on Saturday. Apart from my boyfriend, his oldest sister Erin, and their dad, the bride and groom's whole entire families are hardcore Jehovah's Witnesses. So pretty much all but about ten or so of the 120+ wedding guests were, of course, Jehovah's Witless Witness. I've been to lots of weddings before, from lots of different religions and cultures, but this was my first JW wedding.

It was so boring I fell asleep halfway through it. Like, actually seriously fell asleep. At least I wasn't the only one--the bride's father ALSO fell asleep and had to be shoved awake in order to stand up and say that he giveth this woman to her shitty husband. (The groom is just as rotten a person as the bride--which is the only redeeming feature of this union, the fact that it saves two other people from ever having to get involved with either of them.)

The wedding ceremony itself wasn't very different from most other religions weddings, except that it focused damn near exclusively on the belief that women are subservient to men and should aspire to nothing more than being a 'complement' of men--and that specific word was mentioned no fewer than a squajillion times--that that the most a woman could hope for was for her husband to admit that she's a little better at one thing or another than he is, but of course she can't be her own person without a man and she naturally isn't equal to any man. They weren't even trying to pretend NOT to be sexist.

Then at the end of the ceremony, the 'Elder' (which is JW-speak for a preacher or minister, apparently) actually FORGOT the 'kiss the bride' bit and had to be reminded, so the entire wedding party marched back up to the dais for the kiss and they plodded back out again.

This was the first time I've met the bulk of Boything's relatives. Jehovah's Witless is one of those religions where if you leave it, your entire family and everybody you ever knew will shun you completely. So about half of them ignored him completely, but the other half felt the need to at least say hello to him considering he's the bride's twin brother, and also they wanted to see if possibly this girl he turned up with might be appropriately religious and might 'save' the wayward child. They were disappointed. They gave me the stinkeye a lot as soon as they realized I wasn't a JW. They had a number of hints.

Firstly, I wore trousers and was the only woman there wearing them. Boything's family said this would be okay--because I said I didn't own a dress and couldn't afford to buy one just for one event--but I stood out and got lots of disapproving looks from pretty much everybody there. (For the record I was still dressed very nicely and even wore my only pair of high heeled big-girl-shoes. I didn't even show cleavage, which is kind of an achievement for me because I'm up to a DD now.) My pants were extremely itchy so I changed into jeans for the (very casual) reception, which still looked very nice, but they were PISSED OFF because THE WHORE WEARS MEN'S CLOTHING. Secondly, my wrist tattoo was visible, which marks me out immediately as NOT a JW and most of them seemed to think I was showing it off on purpose. And then of course, whenever the annoying relatives were asking questions, Boything and I mentioned that we live together and obviously we are not married, since I was introduced as his girlfriend. They wouldn't acknowledge me or him at all once they found out we were cohabiting. Except to come up behind Boything and give his braid a YANK, because the only thing they hate more than unmarried couples living together, tattoos, and women in trousers... is LONG HAIR ON MEN. It really is hard to overstate just how much people gave us nasty looks or outright said something like 'that's not right!' or 'you shouldn't be doing that!' or said nasty things about me (the words 'slut' and 'whore' were bandied about) within earshot without caring that we could hear them.

Jehovah's Witlesses are masters are shunning nonbelievers. It's bad enough that I and a couple of other guests were never members of the church to begin with, but people like Boything, his sister, their dad, and the rest of the non-JW guests actually LEFT or were KICKED OUT and those are SO MUCH WORSE. At the reception, there was an extra table set up further away from the rest of the family tables. There was a table for the bride's family, a table for the groom's family, and a third table furthest from the food and drinks and set apart from the rest of them. That was the 'expat table', as I started calling it. It was a table specially for the ex-JWs (or, in my case, the just plain non-JW). It was right next to the speakers for maximum discomfort, and people gave us a wide berth. Yeah.

Boything's maternal grandfather especially seemed to hate me. Lots. The other grandfather is a great guy, and also not a JW, and I get on with him quite well. (He was also much too ill to go to the reception.) This guy didn't even bother hiding it. I had to leave the reception about an hour early because I had to go back to work (I could only get someone to cover half the day for me), but as Boything was leaving to go spend the night at his dad's house, Grandpa demanded, "SO WHEN ARE Y'ALL GONNA STOP LIVIN' AND SIN AND GIT MARRIED?" Boything laughed at him and left the hall to go wait in the car. He wouldn't even give an answer. I love him to death.

Actually, the whole wedding in thing in general--and watching Stache go crazy for the last few months planning it, and the rest of the women in the family going crazy, and the fact that all this time and money and frustration and craziness went into half a day... it got me thinking. As we went from the JW hall to the reception, I turned to Boything and went, "Let's never, EVER get married."

And then there was the groom, who I'm positive has cheated several times before and will continue to cheat now. He's a shitty person who's also scared to death of me despite the fact that there's literally nothing scary about me. He reached over me for something while I was sitting down and paused to flagrantly staaaaare straight down my top. I was so shocked I didn't even say anything. I should have backed my chair into his groin.

So yeah, that was my experience with a JW wedding. I hope it's my last.
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: Random Gal on April 16, 2013, 06:51:47 pm
I'm sorry you had to go through that.
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: Cerim Treascair on April 16, 2013, 07:42:11 pm
Good sweet fucking hell... I'm so glad my last relative that was a JW died.  Nobody liked her by the time she kicked off.
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: JohnE on April 16, 2013, 07:45:04 pm
Quote from: Random Guy on April 16, 2013, 06:51:47 pm
I'm sorry you had to go through that.
Same here. It was an entertaining read though.
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: Caitshidhe on April 16, 2013, 08:54:49 pm
It wasn't really too terribly bad because I went into it with the expectation that it was going to suck. Since they're not gonna like me and I KNOW they're never going to like me, it pretty well gives me free reign to do anything I feel like to piss them off as long as I'm not behaving out of character. Because the shitty treatment was expected, it more amused me than anything else. It was almost a self-parody.

There were two redeeming features of this wedding: the bridesmaid dresses were amazing (I'll see if I can get a picture because they were so gorgeous that I offered to buy one off of any bridesmaid who didn't want theirs), and the cake toppers were a bride and groom rubber duckie and while they were cutting the cake, Boything and Stache's mom had the DJ play 'Rubber Duckie' from Sesame Street.

Also, the cake was pretty good.

Unfortunately, because a single wedding guest is a fire-breathing teetotaler AA fundie as well as a JW fundie, nobody was allowed to have alcohol at all. Not even bringing your own. Erin snuck in a bottle of rum and we all took turns taking swigs of it under the table. It made the whole thing suck slightly less but I had to drive back to work so I couldn't get silly.
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: TheUnknown on April 16, 2013, 10:16:37 pm
The first thing I thought of was, "So basically this is the adult version of a high school clique?"

I haven't been to JW wedding (thankfully), but I've been to a Catholic wedding, which is impossible to sleep through because they won't give you the chance.  Sit, stand, sit, listen to priest read a Bible passage, stand, sing hymn, sit, stand, sit, pray, stand, sit, stand, with the bride and groom appearing in places in between.  That's pretty much a rough description of my experience.

Still, no where near as cliquey as the JW wedding.  I don't know if I could've handled it.  As for shitgroom, I'm surprised he'd do that if he's scared shitless of you.  Do you think he felt bold being surrounded by his family, knowing he'd be defended if you did anything?  As for why he's afraid, maybe after being raised in a system that teaches him women are his inferiors, knowing you're from the outside and won't play by his rules makes him nervous? 
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: niam2023 on April 16, 2013, 10:43:38 pm
If I were you, I would've said "sexism ahoy!" Every time they said something sexist.

That, and making snarky comments about anything in there.

That, and I'd take a seat at the JW table and just smile at everyone and basically behave as I wish.

It sounds like it'd be fun to troll a Jehovah's Witless wedding.
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: rookie on April 16, 2013, 11:48:21 pm
Sounds like it sucked. That thought has been pretty well covered. So l'll say good for you for going and being with your boything. As much as it sucks, doing things like that are a part of grown up relationships.
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: ironbite on April 17, 2013, 12:34:02 am
That's what you went to?  You should've brought me!

Ironbite-the shunning that would've happened would've been AMAZING!
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: Thejebusfire on April 17, 2013, 01:16:20 am
Thankfully I've never had the misfortune of personally knowing any JWs.
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: RavynousHunter on April 17, 2013, 02:10:22 am
Please, don't paint all Witnesses with the same brush, because you're painting my mother with that brush, and she knows I'm an atheist and has shown me as much love and attention as she did when I was born.

That said, that would've been a shitty wedding, no matter the religion.  I've never been to a wedding...never had the opportunity, but even I know that they shouldn't be falling-asleep boring.  Still wanna get married one day, though...sometimes, a little ritual is a good thing, and the perks it brings along with it aren't too bad, either.  Still, going on -that- long about nothing kills what really should be, if nothing else, a pleasant, enjoyable event for all involved, and that it happened is quite fucked up.
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: Cerim Treascair on April 17, 2013, 02:51:52 am
Ravy, having been to seven weddings in my 29 years, the most enjoyable one was one of my cousins.  Actual marriage ceremony? 45 minutes, and even the priest was like "we good? awesome, do you? and do you? you're man and wife, kiss the bride, may you have a happy, long life together".  Reception? six hours.  With four kinds of cake, an open bar (though you had to pay the bartender they hired yourself for any drinks), some fantastic appetizers, and dinner was steak and chicken, with a veggie side and mashed potatoes with gravy.

Come to think of it, that was the wedding where I told my parents I was bi.  Good times!
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: RavynousHunter on April 17, 2013, 03:29:56 am
My brother went to a wedding of one of his friends' relatives, and the reception was, apparently, the Reception of Bacon.  Bacon strips, bacon cheese burgers, bacon-wrapped chicken, shishkebabs wrapped in bacon...according to him, it sounds like something out of fuckin Epic Meal Time.

Let it be known, my wedding shall have bacon!  Not entirely bacon, of course, but there will be bacon.  There must be bacon.  And chocolate.  And ice cream.  ...And ice cream cake.  And veggie trays the size of a small moon with 500 different sauces to dip 'em in.  Also, chicken.  My wedding guests may have to visit cardiologists afterwards...their arteries will probably hate them, lol.
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: erictheblue on April 17, 2013, 07:21:00 am
Quote from: ironbite on April 17, 2013, 12:34:02 am
That's what you went to?  You should've brought me!

Ironbite-the shunning that would've happened would've been AMAZING!

Oh gods, I would pay money to see that!


Cait: That wedding sounds awful! I'm sorry you had to go through that.
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: Bezron on April 17, 2013, 11:52:32 am
You should have gotten some anti-sexist pamphlets and gone around knocking on each table asking if they had a moment to hear the good news of the 21st century.  And then just left a shit load of the pamphlets at each table.
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: Caitshidhe on April 17, 2013, 01:26:18 pm
Of course all JWs aren't the same, but it happens that Boything's family are the particular hardcore fundie flavour of JW that everybody dislikes, including other JWs. Boything grew up going to 'meetings' four times a week for three or more hours at a go, weekend-long conventions of nothing but endless sermons, being forbidden from access to any non-church-approved reading or media of any type, and being told that his own dad is a demon because he's a magician. Their entire community and family are like that. These JWs do exist and they are indeed grand masters of the SHUUUUUUNNNN THE NONBELIEVER stuff. I have no idea how prevalent they are but going by what I've seen and read (and what Boything's dad has talked about, and he looooves talking about hwo ridiculous that shit is), they're certainly not UNUSUAL. They even have their own child sex abuse scandals. It seems far more common for them to SHUUUUNNNN THE NONBELIIIIIEVERRRRRR than it is for them to be a-okay with someone being ANY other flavour of belief, let alone ATHEIST.

It doesn't help that the people involved are more or less without exception terrible human beings. I can count on one hand the number of people who didn't say nasty things and/or shun us: Erin, their brother Ollie, Dad, and a friend of the bride's called Rachel who is just good fun to be around.

These sorts of things happen at fundie weddings of any kind though if you aren't a member of their club. Shitty people in combination with fundie beliefs makes for a wedding that's essentially a self-parody of intolerance.

Also, I TOTALLY should have brought you, Ibbs!!! That would have been great. All the middle-aged women in attendance would have spontaneously generated pearls just to clutch at them.
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: Random Gal on April 17, 2013, 01:33:25 pm
Nothing livens up a wedding like robotic dinosaurs.
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: Meshakhad on April 17, 2013, 03:31:41 pm
Quote from: Random Guy on April 17, 2013, 01:33:25 pm
Nothing livens up a wedding like robotic dinosaurs.

How about actual dinosaurs?
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: erictheblue on April 17, 2013, 06:07:35 pm
Quote from: Bezron on April 17, 2013, 11:52:32 am
You should have gotten some anti-sexist pamphlets and gone around knocking on each table asking if they had a moment to hear the good news of the 21st century.  And then just left a shit load of the pamphlets at each table.

Or leave this on the tables...

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: davedan on April 17, 2013, 06:45:11 pm
Dry weddings of whatever persuasion are pretty fucking ordinary. I have been to a couple of dry weddings in Bangladesh and they at least make up for it with lots of delicious food and dancing.
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: syaoranvee on April 17, 2013, 06:57:24 pm
The Witnesses use a practice known as Disfellowshipping to keep their lot in line, if two people claim you commited a "serious sin", you can be disfellowshipped.  What this means is that they are supposed to break up all contact with you regardless of family ties or relationships.  EVERY JW is supposed to do this to this particular person.  It destroys a person's family, friends, everything as JWs tend to be apart of tight knited communities and families.  Normally, with a sect of religion you can say a person is an asshole if they do this sort of thing, not the JWs, it is REQUIRED by their sect and if you don't abide by it you risk disfellowshipping as well.

A list of serious sins according to wikipedia for JWs:

Quote
Jehovah's Witnesses consider many actions to be "serious sins", for which baptized Witnesses are subject to disfellowshipping or formal reproof. Actions for which a member can be disfellowshipped include: Abortion,[18] adultery, apostasy,[19] bestiality, blood transfusions,[20] "brazen conduct" or "loose conduct",[21][22] drug abuse,[23] drunkenness, extortion,[24] fornication, fraud,[25] gambling,[24] greed,[24] homosexual activity, idolatry, incest, interfaith activity,[26] lying,[27] manslaughter, murder, "perverted sex relations",[28] polygamy,[29] pornography,[30] reviling, sexual abuse,[31] slander,[25] spiritism, theft, and use of tobacco.[23][32][33]

Quote
According to Raymond Franz, a letter dated September 1, 1980, from the Watch Tower Society to all circuit and district overseers advised that a member who "merely disagrees in thought with any of the Watch Tower Society's teachings is committing apostasy and is liable for disfellowshipping."[104]

This and the fact that they are willing to allow their own children to die because of not allowing them to have blood makes them a bunch of assholes and a cult and I have no problem calling them that when they use to come to my door. (Spoiler: They stopped doing that pretty quickly)
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: Witchyjoshy on April 17, 2013, 07:00:55 pm
Let me put it this way:

I'm generally respectful of other religions on the basis that I want them to respect my religion, too.

Mormons, Jehova's Witnesses, and Scientology are the exceptions.  I feel no shame about pointing out how these systems are, in fact, inherently harmful, and what vee pointed out is why.
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: Caitshidhe on April 17, 2013, 08:08:43 pm
It probably doesn't help that those three religions are not only objectively harmful, but can also pretty well conclusively be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be complete fabrications and great big piles of bull poop.
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: Søren on April 17, 2013, 08:19:38 pm
I wish i was a woman just for the purpose of trolling JW's
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: Random Gal on April 17, 2013, 08:20:55 pm
Quote from: Caitshidhe on April 17, 2013, 08:08:43 pm
It probably doesn't help that those three religions are not only objectively harmful, but can also pretty well conclusively be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be complete fabrications and great big piles of bull poop.

Especially considering two of them were founded by con artists.
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: Saturn500 on April 17, 2013, 08:23:07 pm
Wait, was it Mormonism or JW which was founded by a con artist?
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: Random Gal on April 17, 2013, 08:49:00 pm
Mormonism. It's pretty clear Joseph Smith just made up the golden tablets story to get people to follow him.
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: Saturn500 on April 17, 2013, 10:28:04 pm
[Lightbulb appears over my head] And so he could have multiple wives! Of course! It all makes sense now!

Mormonism came about because Joseph Smith didn't think he was getting laid enough!
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: Caitshidhe on April 17, 2013, 10:34:03 pm
And wasn't wealthy enough. And didn't have enough people doing exactly what he said. Or believing everything he said, no matter how crazy. (Including--this is true!!--that there were tall Quaker-type people with lifespans of a thousand years living on the moon.) And didn't have enough of the US government after him.

Well, yanno, if you're gonna dream... dream big!
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: Radiation on April 17, 2013, 10:40:33 pm
I have been to two weddings in my life, both of which were Catholic weddings. The first one I went to was when I was a kid and the second one I went to was my cousin's wedding.

It's too bad that you had to deal with that Cait but at least, hopefully, you won't have to deal with that family for a while.
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: ironbite on April 18, 2013, 12:38:53 am
Only reason the old fundie women would've grown pearls to clutch is to gape at what I'd be wearing.  Because if I'm gonna scandalize somebody, I don't go half-ass.

TIME TO BREAK OUT MY WEDDING DRESS!

Ironbite-then have a big flash mob who'd dance to Weapon of Choice as I flounce out of their world.
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: Caitshidhe on April 18, 2013, 08:42:29 am
This is why I love you.
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: Art Vandelay on April 18, 2013, 08:51:21 am
In my experience, weddings tend to be quite pleasant. Sit through a few minutes of religious bullshit, watch the bride and groom suck face and then you get to spend a few hours sitting around and eating food that someone else paid for. All in all, it makes for a good day.
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: ironbite on April 18, 2013, 10:06:08 pm
Quote from: Caitshidhe on April 18, 2013, 08:42:29 am
This is why I love you.

Because I'm insane?
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: Meshakhad on April 19, 2013, 01:28:47 pm
First wedding I ever went to was my cousin's. It wasn't religious, but Irish - both the bride and groom were of Irish descent.

Second was another cousin. This was straight-up Catholic.

The third was my best friend's wedding, and it was Buddhist - he and his wife actually met while studying to convert to Buddhism. There wasn't a lot of religion. A nun conducted the ceremony, and said a long chant in Tibetan (which she actually cut short, on account of my obvious discomfort in direct sunlight). Then my friend and his wife made declarations of love, and that was that.
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: gomer21xx on April 19, 2013, 02:44:13 pm
Quote from: ironbite on April 18, 2013, 12:38:53 am
Only reason the old fundie women would've grown pearls to clutch is to gape at what I'd be wearing.  Because if I'm gonna scandalize somebody, I don't go half-ass.

TIME TO BREAK OUT MY WEDDING DRESS!

Ironbite-then have a big flash mob who'd dance to Weapon of Choice as I flounce out of their world.

Okay, that settles it.  I need to bring you and Cait down here so we can go troll some churches.  And put that shit on YouTube.

Because, dammit, I wanna troll my hometown!
Title: Re: My Big Fat Fundie Wedding
Post by: Cerim Treascair on April 20, 2013, 06:52:03 pm
Quote from: gomer21xx on April 19, 2013, 02:44:13 pm
Quote from: ironbite on April 18, 2013, 12:38:53 am
Only reason the old fundie women would've grown pearls to clutch is to gape at what I'd be wearing.  Because if I'm gonna scandalize somebody, I don't go half-ass.

TIME TO BREAK OUT MY WEDDING DRESS!

Ironbite-then have a big flash mob who'd dance to Weapon of Choice as I flounce out of their world.

Okay, that settles it.  I need to bring you and Cait down here so we can go troll some churches.  And put that shit on YouTube.

Because, dammit, I wanna troll my hometown!

Room for one more?