The Pirate Bay sunk in the UK

[Fpqxz]

To Kit Walker:

By the "desire to pay" I meant that some people wish to "try before they buy", or they don't think a movie is good enough to want to have a physical copy of it (i.e. it's a shit movie, but they want to see how bad it actually is).

As far as the existence of copyright law itself is concerned, I don't necessarily think it should be completely eliminated, though I think term length needs to be shortened, and enforcement needs to be less heavy-handed (no criminal penalties, no massive punitive damages, no suing little girls for downloading a few songs).  That's just for starters.

And for the record, the overwhelming majority of the music, movies, and TV shows that I have were obtained legitimately.  I don't seed every fucking movie via torrent (in fact, I haven't even opened uTorrent in weeks), and most of the stuff I've downloaded is not commercially available anyway.

Furthermore, see my previous post about CBS and Viacom.  These companies actively promoted and distributed file-sharing software.

[MadCatTLX]

A lot of the stuff I download I can't reasonably get any other way. Things like TV shows that haven't aired in years and have no DVDs or the VHS release was so lang ago there is no way to get one, and they company still throws a fit. This used to be a case with one of the old Sonic the Hedgehog cartoons, the only way fans could get it was by pirating it.

I can't find a way to get music other than downloading it. I'm 17, so I don't have a credit card to buy it on itunes or such, and the music I like isn't usually available in a store anywhere near me. I can already listen to almost any song on my Iphone using YouTube(usually uploaded by the creator themselves), downloading it doesn't do anything but make it so I don't have to use up my data plan.

I've seen a lot of copyright bullshit go on on YouTube before. People will get videos taken down that criticize them by making false copyright claims, when it actually falls under Fair Use. I've seen many accounts closed over this bullshit.

Lastly I pirate out of spite. I want to show the groups trying to censor the internet a a bright neon sign that says "FUCK YOU". Trying to censor the internet is a bad idea. It will get horribly abused, like the YouTube shit on a much larger scale. I also see it being used to censor material the government disagrees with(Anarchist Cookbook). The worst part is that the filtering is completely useless. If you've seen the filters that most schools use you know what I mean. It's a waste of money. It's a nothing more than a nuisance to anyone determined enough.

[RavynousHunter]

Personally, I don't make any excuse for my piracy.  Yes, I pirate.  Mostly, I download games that I've already bought but that I either can't find the discs for or said discs are screwed beyond any hope of repair.

As a gamer, I find the draconian DRM companies implement to be so idiotically over-the-top as to be insulting.  I legitimately buy several games, and I don't like the thought of being fucked because my computer's configured a certain way, or I have certain software, re Daemon Tools, installed.  Its my fucking choice how I configure my computer, and its my fucking choice if I have Daemon Tools installed.  If you don't want to deal with that, too fucking bad, I'll get a crack for your fucking game in a heartbeat.  If I've paid for your product, I refuse to be treated like a god damned criminal, you pieces of shit already have my money, I'll be damned if I'm letting you tell me how I should build my computer, what software I should have installed, or let you report on my computer's hardware specs and activities to your company.

You know what that's called, cocksuckers?  MALWARE.  Its a fucking virus, and I'm treating it like one.

I'm also a prospective game developer, and you know what?  I'm not using that fucking malware and treating my end users like criminals.  The only restriction I'll ever implement is an activation code you plug into the game when you install.  No disc checks, no requiring constant internet access, no fucking malware.  I don't need state-of-the-art anti-piracy malware, because I don't have my fucking head up my ass.

[syaoranvee]

Edit: tried another proxy, working perfectly. Time taken to bypass block: less than 5 minutes.

Which will probably be blocked at some point in the future as well.  I'm sure they're on the lookout for holes that people are using.

The only restriction I'll ever implement is an activation code you plug into the game when you install.

Which a pirate will make some sort of a program to bypass and bundle it with the game when they put it up on whatever torrent site they frequent.  So overall useless, which is why companies have stepped up to try different things such as the forms of DRM.

[Patches]

The problem with the ability to digitize media lies on the supply-demand curve.  As the supply of an item approaches infinity, the amount people are willing to pay for it approaches zero.  And since a digital item can be repeatedly reproduced at little to no cost to the owner (aside from bandwidth), then its perceived supply is infinite and therefore its perceived value is zero.

The production and distribution of media has essentially gone the same way as aluminum.  Back when aluminum was difficult to refine, it was worth about as much as gold.  But once someone figured out how to mass-refine it, the price massively dropped.  Yet digital media, which requires no printing or shipping of anything and can be mass-produced infinitely for free, still costs roughly the same amount as its physical counterpart.  It's $1600/oz aluminum foil.

[Kit Walker]

The production and distribution of media has essentially gone the same way as aluminum.  Back when aluminum was difficult to refine, it was worth about as much as gold.  But once someone figured out how to mass-refine it, the price massively dropped.  Yet digital media, which requires no printing or shipping of anything and can be mass-produced infinitely for free, still costs roughly the same amount as its physical counterpart.  It's $1600/oz aluminum foil.

We can either have movies that cost $200 Million to make or we can have movies that cost $0.99 to purchase. I don't think we can have both, not any time soon.

[starseeker]

I'll stop pirating when the media companies stop refusing to take my money or stream to me because I'm not in the States. Ditto Japanese stuff. Region controls are fucking stupid.

[RavynousHunter]

The only restriction I'll ever implement is an activation code you plug into the game when you install.

Which a pirate will make some sort of a program to bypass and bundle it with the game when they put it up on whatever torrent site they frequent.  So overall useless, which is why companies have stepped up to try different things such as the forms of DRM.

The point isn't to curb DRM.  I know keygens exist, I've even got a cursory understanding of how they're made.  For anyone with experience, they're piss easy to make.  Then again, these hackers will break ANY DRM, and they're more than willing to bash your software to pieces until they do.

The thing is, modern DRM is far too close to malware to be comfortable for me to implement.  Also, if your game's simple to install, with no idiotic hoops to jump thru, people will be less likely to pirate.  People will pirate if they damn well feel like it.  And, I'm not selling my game hard-copy...I couldn't keep up with orders in a timely manner at all.  I'll use digital distribution, instead.  That eliminates a LOT of overhead, and will allow me to sell my game far, far cheaper than most do.  Also, considering that, since you'd be buying directly from the source (me), you don't have to add in the cost of retail.

All in all, I think the absolute MOST I'd charge for my game, once built, would be $20.  A little more than Minecraft, perhaps, but quite a bit more involved...as anyone who's read the accompanying thread can plainly see.

I refuse to shaft my users with malware just because some assholes have no scruples.  They don't have any scruples with breaking complex, involved DRM, and they won't have any with me, I'm under no delusions otherwise.

[starseeker]

A good example of working DRM is Steam, because it also brings benefits, isn't generally annoying and works.

[RavynousHunter]

Exactly.  There IS good DRM out there.  But, it needs to be very carefully thought-out and implemented, so it provides good protection without being a burden to the user.

[m52nickerson]

A lot of the stuff I've downloaded is not even commercially available (or at least, not available in the USA), so no sales were lost.  Does that still make me a thief?

Yes, just because it is not available for you to buy it does not give you the right to take it.

I've compiled mix CDs for friends who want to get into new music.  Does that make me a thief?

Again, yes.

I haven't deprived anyone of the possession, title, or usage of any of their own media.  Does that make me a thief?

If you don't pay for content, yes it does make you a thief.  If you don't like how that sounds don't fucking do it.

[Patches]

The production and distribution of media has essentially gone the same way as aluminum.  Back when aluminum was difficult to refine, it was worth about as much as gold.  But once someone figured out how to mass-refine it, the price massively dropped.  Yet digital media, which requires no printing or shipping of anything and can be mass-produced infinitely for free, still costs roughly the same amount as its physical counterpart.  It's $1600/oz aluminum foil.

We can either have movies that cost $200 Million to make or we can have movies that cost $0.99 to purchase. I don't think we can have both, not any time soon.

This is true, but it's not what I was arguing.  I was arguing that, because digital media is in infinite supply, the perceived value to the customer is zero.  Therefore, the problem is that some sort of strategy needs to be employed to make it so the customer doesn't feel like you're making them pay for water or something.  Something like Steam where having a paid account nets you extra benefits, benefits which can't be pirated, therefore the commercial product no longer appears infinitely plentiful.

[VirtualStranger]

I haven't deprived anyone of the possession, title, or usage of any of their own media.  Does that make me a thief?

If you don't pay for content, yes it does make you a thief.  If you don't like how that sounds don't fucking do it.

One word: YouTube.

In the eyes of the companies that produce the content, The Pirate Bay and YouTube are the same thing. Ever listened to a song on YouTube? Congratulations, you are a criminal.

A lot of the stuff I've downloaded is not even commercially available (or at least, not available in the USA), so no sales were lost.  Does that still make me a thief?

Yes, just because it is not available for you to buy it does not give you the right to take it.

Please tell me how it is illegal to violate the copyright law of a county you aren't even in. How can you violate copyright if there they have no copyright to violate?

[Art Vandelay]

One word: YouTube.

In the eyes of the companies that produce the content, The Pirate Bay and YouTube are the same thing. Ever listened to a song on YouTube? Congratulations, you are a criminal.

Which is why a lot of music publishers have Youtube partnered accounts that generate ad revenue, right?

[Fpqxz]

A lot of the stuff I've downloaded is not even commercially available (or at least, not available in the USA), so no sales were lost.  Does that still make me a thief?

Yes, just because it is not available for you to buy it does not give you the right to take it.

Who exactly is being hurt by that?  No sales revenues are lost; in fact, no one is losing anything.  By supporting litigation by copyright owners for works not for sale, you are supporting copyright trolling, which is a serious misuse of intellectual property rights.

I've compiled mix CDs for friends who want to get into new music.  Does that make me a thief?

Again, yes.

So by giving free publicity to bands these people might otherwise not hear or even know about, I'm stealing from them?  Do you know how many bands became popular and increase album sales through word-of-mouth and tape/CD trading?

I haven't deprived anyone of the possession, title, or usage of any of their own media.  Does that make me a thief?

If you don't pay for content, yes it does make you a thief.  If you don't like how that sounds don't fucking do it.

Let me explain one more time:  if I take a physical object from you, such as your car, that's theft.  If I were to make an exact replica or working model of your car, and didn't take the one that belonged to you...that might be patent infringement (maybe) but it sure as hell isn't theft.  It's not the same thing.

And I couldn't help but notice that no one has refuted my arguments about investment capital or the big media companies distributing file sharing software.  Hmm...