Author Topic: Video Game Thread 2.0  (Read 1514918 times)

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Offline ironbite

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4725 on: July 18, 2014, 10:00:19 am »
Personally, I'm just amazed that 300 or so years after a nuclear apocalypse, someone in what's left of America somehow learned any ancient history at all, much less enough to try and re-create the Roman Empire.

Why not?  I mean the dude did begin life as a Mormon missionary.  Then he found some books on Rome.  Was a short step after all.

Ironbite-then Ulysses showed up and really screwed everything up.

Offline chitoryu12

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4726 on: July 18, 2014, 10:11:45 am »
Personally, I'm just amazed that 300 or so years after a nuclear apocalypse, someone in what's left of America somehow learned any ancient history at all, much less enough to try and re-create the Roman Empire.

Why not?  I mean the dude did begin life as a Mormon missionary.  Then he found some books on Rome.  Was a short step after all.

Ironbite-then Ulysses showed up and really screwed everything up.

Yeah, it's not like all past knowledge and history books just evaporated. The Vaults, for instance, would have maintained said knowledge and some of them opened up completely normally (or at least didn't die out or release psychopaths into the wastes).

Also, 300 years later is a pretty perfect time to be learning history. It's been long enough since the apocalypse that some actual creation of civilization on various scales has occurred, so people have the chance to sit down an read books instead of constantly scrounging for their next meal.
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Offline Askold

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4727 on: July 18, 2014, 10:59:28 am »
Personally, I'm just amazed that 300 or so years after a nuclear apocalypse, someone in what's left of America somehow learned any ancient history at all, much less enough to try and re-create the Roman Empire.

Why not?  I mean the dude did begin life as a Mormon missionary.  Then he found some books on Rome.  Was a short step after all.

Ironbite-then Ulysses showed up and really screwed everything up.

Yeah, it's not like all past knowledge and history books just evaporated. The Vaults, for instance, would have maintained said knowledge and some of them opened up completely normally (or at least didn't die out or release psychopaths into the wastes).

Also, 300 years later is a pretty perfect time to be learning history. It's been long enough since the apocalypse that some actual creation of civilization on various scales has occurred, so people have the chance to sit down an read books instead of constantly scrounging for their next meal.

To be fair, based on what I saw in NeW Vegas most people HAD forgotten about Rome. Even the PC has a line in which he asks one of the companions why he speaks the Legion language when he says a Roman phrase. The people who have learned about the ancient Rome and know that Caesar is imitating an older culture are few and all are either scientists or other learned persons. (There were a few ghouls who had lived before the war as well in New Vegas but I don't remember what they said about the Legion.)

AND the Legion had orders to erase all history and were destroying books so that people (and the members of the Legion) wouldn't realise that their leader is just a historical re-enactor who went insane.
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Offline ironbite

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4728 on: July 18, 2014, 11:07:22 am »
Uh...he's not insane in that way.  Nor is he a historical re-enactor.  In all seriousness, Caesar was trying to recreate society in the ashes of the Wasteland.  And doing it in a way that, in all honesty, was working.  Yeah it was a brutal way of life but it worked.  It worked well.  It worked amazingly well to the point where he was one of two great superpowers in that part of the Wastes.  And he would've probably kept on going except for 2 things.  One, he ran into a foe just as powerful and with as many soldiers as he has.  2, he ran in Ulysses.  Seriously that dude really fucked Caesar's plans up by setting up Courier 6.

Ironbite-and changed that portion of the Wasteland forever.

Offline chitoryu12

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4729 on: July 18, 2014, 11:28:21 am »
Personally, I'm just amazed that 300 or so years after a nuclear apocalypse, someone in what's left of America somehow learned any ancient history at all, much less enough to try and re-create the Roman Empire.

Why not?  I mean the dude did begin life as a Mormon missionary.  Then he found some books on Rome.  Was a short step after all.

Ironbite-then Ulysses showed up and really screwed everything up.

Yeah, it's not like all past knowledge and history books just evaporated. The Vaults, for instance, would have maintained said knowledge and some of them opened up completely normally (or at least didn't die out or release psychopaths into the wastes).

Also, 300 years later is a pretty perfect time to be learning history. It's been long enough since the apocalypse that some actual creation of civilization on various scales has occurred, so people have the chance to sit down an read books instead of constantly scrounging for their next meal.

To be fair, based on what I saw in NeW Vegas most people HAD forgotten about Rome. Even the PC has a line in which he asks one of the companions why he speaks the Legion language when he says a Roman phrase. The people who have learned about the ancient Rome and know that Caesar is imitating an older culture are few and all are either scientists or other learned persons. (There were a few ghouls who had lived before the war as well in New Vegas but I don't remember what they said about the Legion.)

AND the Legion had orders to erase all history and were destroying books so that people (and the members of the Legion) wouldn't realise that their leader is just a historical re-enactor who went insane.

Well, I never said that historical knowledge is basically the same as it was in pre-war society (the Kings are living proof of that). I just didn't like Art's suggestion that after 300 years of scraping civilization back together with the aid of the descendants of pre-war peoples (most prominently Vault City), nobody would have any resources on ancient history. It's just extremely improbable that nothing would have survived for educated persons to take advantage of. It's likewise improbable that there would be no educated persons.
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Offline Askold

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4730 on: July 18, 2014, 11:52:33 am »
To be fair, based on what I saw in NeW Vegas most people HAD forgotten about Rome. Even the PC has a line in which he asks one of the companions why he speaks the Legion language when he says a Roman phrase. The people who have learned about the ancient Rome and know that Caesar is imitating an older culture are few and all are either scientists or other learned persons. (There were a few ghouls who had lived before the war as well in New Vegas but I don't remember what they said about the Legion.)

AND the Legion had orders to erase all history and were destroying books so that people (and the members of the Legion) wouldn't realise that their leader is just a historical re-enactor who went insane.

Well, I never said that historical knowledge is basically the same as it was in pre-war society (the Kings are living proof of that). I just didn't like Art's suggestion that after 300 years of scraping civilization back together with the aid of the descendants of pre-war peoples (most prominently Vault City), nobody would have any resources on ancient history. It's just extremely improbable that nothing would have survived for educated persons to take advantage of. It's likewise improbable that there would be no educated persons.

Well, like I said, somewhere in the game it is specifically mentioned that the Legion WAS trying to get rid of everyone who knew about the Roman history.

And Ironbite:

a) I was partially joking about the insane part, but trying to make yourself into a God-Emperor does not seem like the thing a stable person would do and Caesar does seem to have delusions of grandeur.

b) The "re-enactor" bit was a pure joke.

c) I always felt that the Legion was really impractical. Caesar had some tactical know-how from books and managed to conquer primitive tribes but the Legion wastes a lot of their potential. Their hate for technology (apart from guns apparently) made them rely on berserkers with machetes while the wastes have several groups that have retained firearms and even energy weapons. Their ban on medical technology is just idiotic
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and relying on slavery does cause problems as well. All in all, it seemed to me that he had created a nation that would only survive on feeding on new victims, they would constantly need to conquer new tribes and settlements to gain more slaves and resources just to feed themselves AND then he believed that he could change the Legion into a peaceful and enlightened society simply by conquering NV and gaining his "New Rome." Even without outside interference the Legion would have turned on itself after Caesar's death.

d) I don't see how Ulysses was responsible for the Legion's fall. He helped them gain new tribes and set things in motion for the destruction of New Canaan (if it hadn't been for that meddling Courier 6.) In fact, Courier 6 is the one who chooses wether the Legion wins or looses. Well, Ulysses did set him up to transport the Chip, but if you are going to give him credit for the fall of Legion just for that, you might as well say that Benny is responsible for the fall of Legion. If he had shot better or simply bothered to check for pulse rather than burying his victim alive (after that grand talk about not being a Fink) the Courier would have died there.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
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Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4731 on: July 18, 2014, 11:59:44 am »
Uh...he's not insane in that way.  Nor is he a historical re-enactor.  In all seriousness, Caesar was trying to recreate society in the ashes of the Wasteland.  And doing it in a way that, in all honesty, was working.  Yeah it was a brutal way of life but it worked.  It worked well.  It worked amazingly well to the point where he was one of two great superpowers in that part of the Wastes.  And he would've probably kept on going except for 2 things.  One, he ran into a foe just as powerful and with as many soldiers as he has.  2, he ran in Ulysses.  Seriously that dude really fucked Caesar's plans up by setting up Courier 6.

Ironbite-and changed that portion of the Wasteland forever.
I wish the developers had been able to add Legion territory.  It would've made for some good moral ambiguity.

Offline chitoryu12

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4732 on: July 18, 2014, 07:05:48 pm »
c) I always felt that the Legion was really impractical. Caesar had some tactical know-how from books and managed to conquer primitive tribes but the Legion wastes a lot of their potential. Their hate for technology (apart from guns apparently) made them rely on berserkers with machetes while the wastes have several groups that have retained firearms and even energy weapons. Their ban on medical technology is just idiotic
(click to show/hide)
and relying on slavery does cause problems as well. All in all, it seemed to me that he had created a nation that would only survive on feeding on new victims, they would constantly need to conquer new tribes and settlements to gain more slaves and resources just to feed themselves AND then he believed that he could change the Legion into a peaceful and enlightened society simply by conquering NV and gaining his "New Rome." Even without outside interference the Legion would have turned on itself after Caesar's death.

That actually ends up being an important part of the game, specifically the ending.

(click to show/hide)
.
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4733 on: July 19, 2014, 07:38:57 am »
Besides, they actively engage in slavery.  I don't give two flying fucks how well an in-game society is doing, if its leaders engage in slavery, then they and anyone stupid enough to retaliate against me are going to die quickly and violently.  I've played thru New Vegas several times, and never once sided with the Legion.  Its the same damned reason I always butcher Metzger and his men in Fallout 2.  If you're a slaver, don't come near me, because I will kill you purely on instinct.
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Offline Askold

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4734 on: July 20, 2014, 01:31:21 am »
Well the Legion is also horribly Misogynistic so they got that going against them as well.

I can tolerate slavery and such in fictional societies without feeling the urge to burn the medium it is on but it is certainly not a favourite of mine. (Well, sometimes I play evil characters just for change and in King of Dragon Pass in particular I may play a clan that takes thralls.)

Funnily enough, Fallout has a history of villains who believe they have a good cause.

Fallout 1: The slate must be wiped clean so that mutants can inherit the Earth from the humans who destroyed it.
Fallout 2: The slate must be wiped clean so that humans can take back the Earth from the mutants who have taken over it.
Fallout 3: The slate must be wiped clean so that humans can take back the Earth from the mutants who have taken over it.
Fallout tactics: The slate must be wiped clean so that *ERROR* *ERROR* FILE NOT FOUND. ABORT RETRY FAIL?
Fallout Brotherhood of steel: FUCK EVERYONE! THE MASTER WAS RIGHT!

Then we get to New Vegas and you can finally JOIN the bad guys. Except that none of the factions is squeky clean (not a new thing for Fallout) and the conflict is more about different ideologies than a simple good/evil fight. But they still felt like they needed one "bad guy" faction. "Hey look, these guys have slaves and crucify their enemies and steal babies and women don't have any rights in their society." I almost feel like it would have been better if none of the factions would have been straight up bad guys and all would have had more redeemable features slash ambiquity. (Well, House does some pretty nasty stuff and does not bother to compromise from what he believes is right, but isn't all out bad guy either.)
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Dakota Bob

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4735 on: July 20, 2014, 02:38:48 pm »
Trying to help people take down bosses in Dark Souls 2 is the worst, too many plebs not paying attention to their movesets and just dying within the first 15 seconds of the fight. Dealing with casuals is painful. :P

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4736 on: July 21, 2014, 03:41:52 am »
Replaying Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks. Most underrated Zelda by a huge margin.

Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4737 on: July 21, 2014, 08:53:27 pm »
I beat the Lonesome Road DLC for New Vegas for the first time.  I'm really fucking disappointed in Ulysses.  Here I was thinking he was going to be a cool, intelligent villain or at least foil to the Courier.  Nope.  He's your bog-standard, boring arse wannabe quasi-philospher villain who happened upon a thesaurus and suddenly thinks he's some kind of moral authority or some shit.

Seriously, I was sick of his droning bullshit after the first time he talked to me.  By the end, I just killed him with an explosive round from my anti-tank rifle before his final dialogue just so I didn't have to hear his droning god damned voice one more god damned time.
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Offline ironbite

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4738 on: July 21, 2014, 08:54:57 pm »
I beat the Lonesome Road DLC for New Vegas for the first time.  I'm really fucking disappointed in Ulysses.  Here I was thinking he was going to be a cool, intelligent villain or at least foil to the Courier.  Nope.  He's your bog-standard, boring arse wannabe quasi-philospher villain who happened upon a thesaurus and suddenly thinks he's some kind of moral authority or some shit.

Seriously, I was sick of his droning bullshit after the first time he talked to me.  By the end, I just killed him with an explosive round from my anti-tank rifle before his final dialogue just so I didn't have to hear his droning god damned voice one more god damned time.

I kept him alive because I needed the help against the Marked Men who bust in.

Ironbite-also I love to giggle at how much he really hates the Courier for NO FUCKING REASON!

Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4739 on: July 21, 2014, 09:03:58 pm »
I kept him alive because I needed the help against the Marked Men who bust in.

Ironbite-also I love to giggle at how much he really hates the Courier for NO FUCKING REASON!

Personally, I love how he thinks something you did by complete fuckin accident is comparable to a deliberate act of fucking mass murder.

Also, he was Legion, and feels no remorse over it.  All unrepentant legionaries must die.  If only I could lure them all into a horde of angry cazadores and have my two most hated enemies kill eachother in a gigantic battle as I cackle on the sidelines and drink ice cold Nuka Colas.
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