FSTDT Forums
Community => Religion and Philosophy => Topic started by: Stormwarden on January 20, 2012, 02:11:44 am
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/18/pagan-mom-challenges-bibles-in-north-carolina-school/?test=latestnews
How many times have we had this conversation? School distributes Bibles. Pagan Mom objects. School tells her they always distribute donated religious materials. Mom makes copies of her spellbooks, and donates them to school. School refuses, and mom sues. And now they're deciding they won't distribute any more donated items.
This has happened so many times, that really, we all can guess what the outcome will be. I'm just stunned that the schools failed to comprehend that this sort of thing can happen. I remember when I used to get those Gideon Bibles (they make great hockey pucks if you wrap them in enough shrinkwrap). And I've yet to see anything positive come from those things.
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*sighs* I always forget we have this seperation of church and state that only applies to non-Christian religions.
Ironbite-congrats mom...you'll be as loved as Jessica Alqrist or however you spell her name.
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How many times have we had this conversation? School distributes Bibles. Pagan Mom objects. School tells her they always distribute donated religious materials. Mom makes copies of her spellbooks, and donates them to school. School refuses, and mom sues. And now they're deciding they won't distribute any more donated items.
Want to know what really pisses me off, is that after this little stunt, if someone were to say donate a stack of textbooks, they wont be distributed through the school. For some reason they fail to see the actual point of the difference between the spellbook donation and the bible donation, and how both are in violation of the establishment clause. They instead choose to focus only on the donation and distribution aspect. I can just see it.
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I feel for the kid in all this. I don't care what issues are involved; any time a parent raises a big enough stink in the school system, their kid's gonna catch hell from the other students. And you better friggin' believe the attempt to donate spellbooks to the school just earned the kid some beatings. I'm not saying the mother was wrong in protesting the unfairness of the situation, but there's a such thing as being "dead right", as in, "yes, you had the right of way when you stepped on the crosswalk in front of that oblivious driver, but now you're dead right."
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Sylvana- That IS frightening. Must be a very serious case of the derp out there if they didn't think that far ahead.
Eniliad- I agree. Hope the kid will be okay. Good on the mom for standing up to them, just hope she considered what her son might go through too.
"There's nothing crueler than a child." -Jet Black.
I'd add to it, "Especially when they travel in groups."
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Sylvana- That IS frightening. Must be a very serious case of the derp out there if they didn't think that far ahead.
Eniliad- I agree. Hope the kid will be okay. Good on the mom for standing up to them, just hope she considered what her son might go through too.
"There's nothing crueler than a child." -Jet Black.
I'd add to it, "Especially when they travel in groups."
+1
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*blinks a little bit* It seems she just gave basic teen guides to Wicca. Which isn't exactly spellbooks but is instructional material in a different way but similar to the Bible. At least I hope so.
It wouldn't be very smart to give out 'spellbooks' because those are usually meant to stay in the family. Or at the very least not given to children who have no idea what they're doing.
But it sucks it comes to this. If there's not gonna be separation of church and state then why can't she offer books to children that are probably 100x more mild than the Bible?
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I remember when I used to get those Gideon Bibles (they make great hockey pucks if you wrap them in enough shrinkwrap). And I've yet to see anything positive come from those things.
Doorstops, Spare Toilet Paper, Firelighters and Recycling!
That's 4 more for a start. 8)
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I feel for the kid in all this. I don't care what issues are involved; any time a parent raises a big enough stink in the school system, their kid's gonna catch hell from the other students.
I wonder if we’ll hear anything about that. ‘Cause it is pretty much guaranteed to happen. Actually, should already be happening if it is in the national news now.
I remember when I used to get those Gideon Bibles (they make great hockey pucks if you wrap them in enough shrinkwrap). And I've yet to see anything positive come from those things.
I had a pretty sensible school district, I think. The Gideon folk had to stay off school grounds, and instead distributed them on the nearest street corner. Still kinda annoying, but, hey, it is legal, they are well within their rights, and they are not infringing on the rights of anyone else.
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We had Gideons at the college last year. A few of my friends and I gathered as many of their Bibles as we could, then started having "Bible Fights" that involved hurling them at each other.
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We had Gideons at the college last year. A few of my friends and I gathered as many of their Bibles as we could, then started having "Bible Fights" that involved hurling them at each other.
LOL! Awesome, but as far as bible fights go, I prefer this one... (http://games.adultswim.com/bible-fight-action-online-game.html)
Gideon bibles are like cockroaches. They're everywhere, and will likely be one of the few survivors of a nuclear holocaust, right next to the roaches and Twinkies. And archeologists hiding in lead fridges I guess.
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We had Gideons at the college last year. A few of my friends and I gathered as many of their Bibles as we could, then started having "Bible Fights" that involved hurling them at each other.
LOL! Awesome, but as far as bible fights go, I prefer this one... (http://games.adultswim.com/bible-fight-action-online-game.html)
Gideon bibles are like cockroaches. They're everywhere, and will likely be one of the few survivors of a nuclear holocaust, right next to the roaches and Twinkies. And archeologists hiding in lead fridges I guess.
Hey, you can't beat yelling "The power of Christ compels you!" right before beaning someone in the face with a tiny Bible.
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I commend the mom for calling the school out on their bullshit, but I can see two things happening.
1. The mom and kid will be harassed by the community.
2. There will be Christians out there who play the "Waaaaah! Were being persecuted/oppressed/victimized!" card over this.
Edit: At least SOME people get it.
While many Weaverville Christians see recent events as a threat to tradition, others see a purpose in enforcing church-state separation in public schools, because even the nation's traditional faiths have divisions.
"Many Christians have stood up and said they agree with me too," Strivelli said. "Because, as much as they may like the Bible, they don't want Jehovah's Witnesses coming in with Watch Tower (magazines) or Catholics coming in and having them pray the Rosary."
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I commend the mom for calling the school out on their bullshit, but I can see two things happening.
1. The mom and kid will be harassed by the community.
2. There will be Christians out there who play the "Waaaaah! Were being persecuted/oppressed/victimized!" card over this.
Edit: At least SOME people get it.
While many Weaverville Christians see recent events as a threat to tradition, others see a purpose in enforcing church-state separation in public schools, because even the nation's traditional faiths have divisions.
"Many Christians have stood up and said they agree with me too," Strivelli said. "Because, as much as they may like the Bible, they don't want Jehovah's Witnesses coming in with Watch Tower (magazines) or Catholics coming in and having them pray the Rosary."
Yeah that makes me feel bad for the kid whose mother is pushing this. However, I do feel that she is in the right. If they are going to donate Bibles and distribute them among the kids, then at least they should distribute the Quran, or any other religious texts as well.
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Are there any people here with
secret agents accounts on RR so they can post this there?
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I have an old account on there from super-long ago, but I have no idea if it would still work. Its been inactive for years, and I haven't cared about it since the lulzfest of November 2008. I'd be kind of surprised if the login still did work, given their level of paranoia. They've probably gone through and deleted inactive accounts for fear of the secular liberal internet spies around every corner.
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*blinks a little bit* It seems she just gave basic teen guides to Wicca. Which isn't exactly spellbooks but is instructional material in a different way but similar to the Bible. At least I hope so.
Technically, it's not even similar to the bible. The bible is considered a sacred text and a religious guide. Wiccans don't have any real equivalent to that. Our "Wicca 101" books are generally: "This is what Wicca is. Decide if it's right for you. If it isn't, then at least don't be a dick to Wiccans." In other words, it's the softest sell possible.
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You know what I mean. Whilst it isn't exact, it is a barebones idea of the two.
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Hockey is a Satanic plot to pervert Canadian youths.
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I have an old account on there from super-long ago, but I have no idea if it would still work. Its been inactive for years, and I haven't cared about it since the lulzfest of November 2008. I'd be kind of surprised if the login still did work, given their level of paranoia. They've probably gone through and deleted inactive accounts for fear of the secular liberal internet spies around every corner.
Oh. :( I've tried to get on with proxies but it doesn't seem to work.
What happened in November 2008? (You can PM me if you don't want to derail the thread.)
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I have an old account on there from super-long ago, but I have no idea if it would still work. Its been inactive for years, and I haven't cared about it since the lulzfest of November 2008. I'd be kind of surprised if the login still did work, given their level of paranoia. They've probably gone through and deleted inactive accounts for fear of the secular liberal internet spies around every corner.
Oh. :( I've tried to get on with proxies but it doesn't seem to work.
What happened in November 2008? (You can PM me if you don't want to derail the thread.)
2008 presidential election. Needless to say, they weren't particularly thrilled about Obama's victory.
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Just to give you guys an update, due to the mom that wanted to distribute pagan material in response to Gideon bibles being handed out at her son's school, the Buncombe County BoE has ruled that religious material of any kind may not be distributed on school grounds. Naturally, the Christians are all up in arms claiming this is violating their constitution rights. However, the BoE said that is not so. as any teacher that wants to, say, wear a necklace with a cross pendant is free to do so. They just can't preach about it.
This was just reported on the local news and I can't find a link to it yet. There should be one later today or tomorrow.
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Just to give you guys an update, due to the mom that wanted to distribute pagan material in response to Gideon bibles being handed out at her son's school, the Buncombe County BoE has ruled that religious material of any kind may not be distributed on school grounds. Naturally, the Christians are all up in arms claiming this is violating their constitution rights. However, the BoE said that is not so. as any teacher that wants to, say, wear a necklace with a cross pendant is free to do so. They just can't preach about it.
This was just reported on the local news and I can't find a link to it yet. There should be one later today or tomorrow.
Notice that the law was passed after Gideon Bibles had been handed out, but before those books on Paganism could get around to being distributed. Sometimes fairness isn't exactly fair. :P
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Yes, it is a violation of freedom of religion. Persecuted by the Christian school board. What we have here is a textbook case of Christians persecuting other Christians, & both parties persecuting those nasty pagans.
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Just to give you guys an update, due to the mom that wanted to distribute pagan material in response to Gideon bibles being handed out at her son's school, the Buncombe County BoE has ruled that religious material of any kind may not be distributed on school grounds. Naturally, the Christians are all up in arms claiming this is violating their constitution rights. However, the BoE said that is not so. as any teacher that wants to, say, wear a necklace with a cross pendant is free to do so. They just can't preach about it.
This was just reported on the local news and I can't find a link to it yet. There should be one later today or tomorrow.
Notice that the law was passed after Gideon Bibles had been handed out, but before those books on Paganism could get around to being distributed. Sometimes fairness isn't exactly fair. :P
True. But it's rather obvious that was her intent to begin with. It forced the BoE's hand to either ban all religious material or allow her to distribute hers. The whole thing would have been avoided if they had simply followed the law in the first place and not allowed the Bibles to be distributed.
Incidentally, since this happened in Buncombe County, NC, it may interest some to know that the word bunkum, meaning nonsense, is derived from Buncombe County, NC. Back around 1820, the congressman representing Buncombe arose to address a particular matter before the US House (whether Missouri should be admitted as a slave or free state) and spoke such nonsense that he was actually shouted down by his colleagues. Thereafter, any such speech was said to be buncombe, the spelling of which later changed to bunkum and the meaning expanded to mean anything that was nonsensical. Considering how fundies constantly stating that not being allowed to spread their religious material and message on public property, particularly in schools, is denying them their constitutional rights is pure bunkum, I thought it both ironic and appropriate that this took place in the word's namesake.
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Technically, they were following the law up until the point where they refused to distribute her material. It's an "all or nothing" thing. The door is either open to every faith (including atheist material someone may want to distribute to the kids) or closed to every faith. They can't do much as restrict it even to only mainstream religions--it literally has to be open to everyone.
She did, however, prove the point that it was never their intent to follow the law, but only to distribute Christian material.
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We had Gideons at the college last year. A few of my friends and I gathered as many of their Bibles as we could, then started having "Bible Fights" that involved hurling them at each other.
That sounds very painfull.
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We had Gideons at the college last year. A few of my friends and I gathered as many of their Bibles as we could, then started having "Bible Fights" that involved hurling them at each other.
That sounds very painfull.
Not really. I suppose hurl was the wrong term, sounds a little rougher than it should. Gentle overarm throws would be the closest thing I can think of as a descriptor.
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Usually the Gideon Bibles distributed on street corners are really small-lightweight things with soft covers and cheap, lightweight paper pages. Oftentimes, I have seen them containing only the New Testament. They wouldn’t hurt that much.
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Usually the Gideon Bibles distributed on street corners are really small-lightweight things with soft covers and cheap, lightweight paper pages. Oftentimes, I have seen them containing only the New Testament. They wouldn’t hurt that much.
Once there was this old guy in a trenchcoat who would walk around the school campus, handing out Gideon Bibles with fluorescent orange covers. The school told him to get off their property, so now he just distributes them to the kids walking home.
I don't see the point, most of the school population there was Christian anyway.
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I don't see the point, most of the school population there was Christian anyway.
Because it is also an amulet that will protect them from fire.
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....they make great hockey pucks if you wrap them in enough shrinkwrap...
Well played sir. ;D
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Usually the Gideon Bibles distributed on street corners are really small-lightweight things with soft covers and cheap, lightweight paper pages. Oftentimes, I have seen them containing only the New Testament. They wouldn’t hurt that much.
Once there was this old guy in a trenchcoat who would walk around the school campus, handing out Gideon Bibles with fluorescent orange covers.
Yeah, those would be the ones. I have also seen the same ones with green covers as well.
According to this page (http://lifeandbuilding.com/2011/08/26/that-ubiquitous-bible/), which I only found two minutes ago, they come in several other colors and are so coded depending on where they are supposed to be given out. If I remember correctly, there are a few pages with suggested passages to read. I am guessing that those suggestions may differ based on those codes. You know, in order to create a sense of applicability.
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Usually the Gideon Bibles distributed on street corners are really small-lightweight things with soft covers and cheap, lightweight paper pages. Oftentimes, I have seen them containing only the New Testament. They wouldn’t hurt that much.
Once there was this old guy in a trenchcoat who would walk around the school campus, handing out Gideon Bibles with fluorescent orange covers. The school told him to get off their property, so now he just distributes them to the kids walking home.
I don't see the point, most of the school population there was Christian anyway.
The point was to change the "most" into "all" through the power of peer pressure.
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Usually the Gideon Bibles distributed on street corners are really small-lightweight things with soft covers and cheap, lightweight paper pages. Oftentimes, I have seen them containing only the New Testament. They wouldn’t hurt that much.
Once there was this old guy in a trenchcoat who would walk around the school campus, handing out Gideon Bibles with fluorescent orange covers.
Yeah, those would be the ones. I have also seen the same ones with green covers as well.
According to this page (http://lifeandbuilding.com/2011/08/26/that-ubiquitous-bible/), which I only found two minutes ago, they come in several other colors and are so coded depending on where they are supposed to be given out. If I remember correctly, there are a few pages with suggested passages to read. I am guessing that those suggestions may differ based on those codes. You know, in order to create a sense of applicability.
Orange: for sidewalk distribution to middle/high school students
Yeah, that's kinda creepy.
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I remember those! I used them to hit people while shouting, "The power of Christ compells you!"
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I remember those! I used them to hit people while shouting, "The power of Christ compells you!"
Exalt.
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Exalt. Also you nearly made me wake up my roomie.