FSTDT Forums
Community => Religion and Philosophy => Topic started by: ironbite on January 26, 2012, 06:51:36 pm
-
Which is why this (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/26/newt-gingrich-gay-marriage-_n_1234955.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003) is here in religion rather then politics.
Newt Gingrich has three marriages and repeated infidelity under his belt, but that doesn't stop him from sounding off about the sanctity of male-female marriage.
On a conference call for Religious Right supporters Wednesday, Newt compared gay marriage to paganism. Right Wing Watch has excerpts from the conversation:
So let's see what ol' Newt has to say about this link between paganism(i.e. worshipping other gods rather then God) and gay-marriage.
It's pretty simple: marriage is between a man and a woman. This is a historic doctrine driven deep into the Bible, both in the Old Testament and in the New Testament, and it's a perfect example of what I mean by the rise of paganism. The effort to create alternatives to marriage between a man and a woman are perfectly natural pagan behaviors, but they are a fundamental violation of our civilization.
Uh...what? Violation of our civilization? What? I'm serious. This idiot has no clue what he's saying. And it's not like gays can vote or anything so the GOP can say shit like this and not have any negative consequences whatsoever.
Ironbite-oh wait.
-
Oh... fuck you with something sharp, Gingrich.
-
It's pretty simple: marriage is between a man and a woman. This is a historic doctrine driven deep into the Bible, both in the Old Testament and in the New Testament, and it's a perfect example of what I mean by the rise of paganism. The effort to create alternatives to marriage between a man and a woman are perfectly natural pagan behaviors, but they are a fundamental violation of our civilization.
*scratches head* Now, I admit that it's been a while since I've cracked open a copy of the "good" book, so someone will have to refresh my memory. How many wives did Solomon have, again?
-
Am I the only one who clicked the article link and thought "Oh my god, what's wrong with that woman?!"
-
Paganism harms no-one.
Gay Marriage harms no-one.
Paganism only affects the people involved directly.
Gay Marriage only affects the people involved directly.
-
Someone whose name sounds like a traditional ingredient in a witches' brew has every reason to be concerned about the rise in paganism.
-
Am I the only one who clicked the article link and thought "Oh my god, what's wrong with that woman?!"
Nope. I actually thought she looked plastic for a second there.
-
Newt's special mix of fear mongering and god bothering aside, there's no similarities between the two. One's a non-business related financial and legal contract between two people of the same gender, while the other's a load of airy-fairy nonsense. Can't get much different than that.
-
It's pretty simple: I make statements that bear no resemblance to reality, then repeat them over and over to demonstrate their veracity.
-
Newt, keep your holy book out of politics.
It has no place there. No holy book has any place there.
All secular cultures outside fiction have had laws against killing and theft. These are common sense. We don't need your diety to tell us what's right or wrong, we can figure that out ourselves, and that's because our species would not survive if we didn't have a little thing called a conscience. And if you had a single braincell that knew what evolution actually entailed, you would understand that the conscience didn't develop due to some divine nanny, but rather because it contributed to the survival of our species.
-
I guess he never heard of the 1st amendment. Hey Paganism is not illegal, why is Gay marriage?
Love how Conservitards are all for "State's rights" until the states disagree with them.
-
Paganism harms no-one.
Gay Marriage harms no-one.
Paganism only affects the people involved directly.
Gay Marriage only affects the people involved directly.
Exactly. I have no problem with either gay marriage OR paganism.
-
Gay marriage is like paganism... a civil right.
-
Yet another reason this fucking idiot makes me facepalm.
Remind me why this guy has support again?
-
Yet another reason this fucking idiot makes me facepalm.
Remind me why this guy has support again?
http://fstdt.com/RandomQuotes.aspx
That should help...
-
http://fstdt.com/RandomQuotes.aspx
That should help...
This is not important but I clicked that just for fun and the first thing that came up was:
The cult of the FSTDT is a cult of agnostics/atheists who call Jesus a liar, yet they have no reason for doing so. What FSTDT really stands for is For Satan The Demonic Teacher.
In spite of the fact that God of the Bible is proven in the 4 Step Perfect Proof, they still remain shutting their minds down.
When I am against something, I at least have some evidence, yet they need none because they operate as a cult.
Anyway... Back on topic. It is clear that he is simply trying to use all the things that voters might fear and combining them, next we will hear him warning folks about commie-nazies. It did seem a bit weird to me for him to use "pagan" for scaremongering. Granted saying that "Them gays want to legalize gay marriage" would be a kinda silly and repetition but why pick pagans? Are atheists no longer scary enough? Is there some new pagan scare media-hype that he is trying to ride?
-
LOL they know of us.
Also, you know what's neat? Gay 'marriage' may be in Paganism but not all Pagans are involved in gay marriage.
The only thing really similar is that both should be allowed to be 'practiced' without being afraid of harm.
-
Newt likes the Biblical definition of marriage: one man...many women.
-
Which part of biblical marriage would Gingrich like us to focus on?
(http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/407765_10150553143438756_711313755_8744832_849915946_n.jpg)
-
'Gay marriage is like paganism.' So completely legal in civilised countries and only attacked by bigots who don't know the first thing about it? Man's talking sense for once.
*Looks again*
Ah. Oh dear.
-
Someone whose name sounds like a traditional ingredient in a witches' brew has every reason to be concerned about the rise in paganism.
This = win.
and in response to the original subject, shut up Newt.
-
The effort to create alternatives to marriage between a man and a woman are perfectly natural pagan behaviors, but they are a fundamental violation of our civilization.
Alternatives? You mean like having a lengthy affair before divorcing your wife to marry your mistress? Or does that only count if you do it more than twice?
-
Newt, keep your holy book out of politics.
It has no place there. No holy book has any place there.
Idea:
1. Start new religion based on any random principle.
2. Get enough adherents to become officially recognised.
3. Declare the Constitution of the United States as our Holy Book.
4. America legal system becomes fundamentally inconsistent, explodes in paradox.
5. ???
6. Profit!
-
Well....HURRAY FOR PAGANISM, BABY!!!
-
So I wonder what he things of gay pagans.
Is that twice the sin?
-
So I wonder what he things of gay pagans.
Is that twice the sin?
No. It is sin squared.
Sins are exponential, you know.
-
Am I the only one who clicked the article link and thought "Oh my god, what's wrong with that woman?!"
Holy Fuck!
(http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2012/1/1/b624393d-1ecf-4fe1-aa18-167c0f1d278f.gif)
She looks worse than Bachmann!
-
Paganism harms no-one.
I must disagree.
I feel that all sorts of blind belief have an inherent danger to them.
-
Paganism harms no-one.
I must disagree.
I feel that all sorts of blind belief have an inherent danger to them.
You mean like jumping to the conclusion that paganism requires blind belief?
-
Paganism harms no-one.
I must disagree.
I feel that all sorts of blind belief have an inherent danger to them.
You mean like jumping to the conclusion that paganism requires blind belief?
This man has clearly never come across an atheist Pagan or agnostic Pagan before.
-
Neither have I, for that matter. What exactly is an atheist Pagan?
-
Neither have I, for that matter. What exactly is an atheist Pagan?
Some possibilities I can think of:
1) A religion that doesn't have a god, such as Taoism.
2) "I'm not religious, I'm spiritual."
3) Somebody who plays with the mythology, but doesn't actually believe in it (as in, not an actual pagan).
I also think things like this (http://www.rendingtheveil.com/faith-healing-paganism-anatomy-spirit/) qualify as harmful paganism. Alt med isn't real medicine and it hurts and even kills people needlessly. Even those who try to hide their bullshit by calling it "complimentary" are harmful for pushing snake oil as if it can actually do something. There's also the issue that, like all religions, paganism does not have a method for determining the veracity of a claim (which is evidenced by the fact that there are pagan groups who hold mutually exclusive beliefs). When you can't do this, you don't know if you are operating under the constraints of reality or if you're indulging in wishful thinking. And when you believe in false things, harm necessarily follows.
-
It's pretty simple: marriage is between a man and a woman. This is a historic doctrine driven deep into the Bible, both in the Old Testament and in the New Testament...
Abraham, Gideon, Soloman, and David had more than one wife. If you had actually bothered to read the bible you would have known that.
-
It's pretty simple: marriage is between a man and a woman. This is a historic doctrine driven deep into the Bible, both in the Old Testament and in the New Testament...
Abraham, Gideon, Soloman, and David had more than one wife. If you had actually bothered to read the bible you would have known that.
Oh you know ol' Newt (and most Christian's) stance on the Bible!
tl;dr
-
Neither have I, for that matter. What exactly is an atheist Pagan?
Some possibilities I can think of:
1) A religion that doesn't have a god, such as Taoism.
2) "I'm not religious, I'm spiritual."
3) Somebody who plays with the mythology, but doesn't actually believe in it (as in, not an actual pagan).
I also think things like this (http://www.rendingtheveil.com/faith-healing-paganism-anatomy-spirit/) qualify as harmful paganism. Alt med isn't real medicine and it hurts and even kills people needlessly. Even those who try to hide their bullshit by calling it "complimentary" are harmful for pushing snake oil as if it can actually do something. There's also the issue that, like all religions, paganism does not have a method for determining the veracity of a claim (which is evidenced by the fact that there are pagan groups who hold mutually exclusive beliefs). When you can't do this, you don't know if you are operating under the constraints of reality or if you're indulging in wishful thinking. And when you believe in false things, harm necessarily follows.
...Every pagan I've run into who practices any sort of mystical healing flat-out encourages going to doctors and getting medication for everything. Doesn't mean there aren't pagans like the ones you're talking about, but it does mean I think they're not in nearly the same amount of percentage of Christians who practice prayer-healing.
It's generally not alt medicine, it's more like additional "medicine".
-
I addressed that when I mentioned complimentary "medicine." No, I cannot bring myself to call that brand of bullshit medicine, not when people are given herbs that interfere with real meds.
-
...Every pagan I've run into who practices any sort of mystical healing flat-out encourages going to doctors and getting medication for everything. Doesn't mean there aren't pagans like the ones you're talking about, but it does mean I think they're not in nearly the same amount of percentage of Christians who practice prayer-healing.
It's generally not alt medicine, it's more like additional "medicine".
Yeah, but by the same token, healing spells never claim to be a cure anyway (unless the person making the claim is trying to screw you out of your money). They are "send good energy to speed the healing!"
Also, most healing spells don't involve ingesting hazardous substances. At worst, they are a placebo.
And I fully agree with Vene that you shouldn't go around taking herbs unless you've double-checked with a licensed doctor that you're not doing yourself harm by doing so. There's a big difference between "I will burn this incense!" and "I will eat this green stuff!" and if you're not paying attention, you can do yourself harm. This is also why I'm a huge fan of Cunningham's Encyclopedia of Magickal Herbs--it clearly states that you should consult a medical professional before ingesting anything*, which herbs are never safe to ingest, which should be kept away from children, which should be diluted in teas rather than directly eaten, etc.
* "Herb magic" includes a lot of different things: direct ingestion (raw or cooked), tea infusion, burning as incense, use as ointment (on the self or on objects), offerings to deities--basically, if you can do it with leaves, it's been done as a form of herb magic by someone, with something.
-
Apparently magic is chemistry. I guess I study life magic.
-
Neither have I, for that matter. What exactly is an atheist Pagan?
An atheist who takes inspiration from pagan myths and gods, but doesn't actually believe in them.
-
Neither have I, for that matter. What exactly is an atheist Pagan?
An atheist who takes inspiration from pagan myths and gods, but doesn't actually believe in them.
I don't get this.
Can you also be an Atheist Christian?
-
Neither have I, for that matter. What exactly is an atheist Pagan?
An atheist who takes inspiration from pagan myths and gods, but doesn't actually believe in them.
I don't get this.
Can you also be an Atheist Christian?
I guess you can, if you believe in the teachings of Christ (and ascribe those teachings to him), but don't actually believe in his divinity.
There are atheist Jews who believe in Jewish teachings even though they don't believe in God.
-
Neither have I, for that matter. What exactly is an atheist Pagan?
An atheist who takes inspiration from pagan myths and gods, but doesn't actually believe in them.
I don't get this.
Can you also be an Atheist Christian?
I guess you can, if you believe in the teachings of Christ (and ascribe those teachings to him), but don't actually believe in his divinity.
There are atheist Jews who believe in Jewish teachings even though they don't believe in God.
Judaism is a bad example because it's both a religion and an ethnicity.
-
Neither have I, for that matter. What exactly is an atheist Pagan?
An atheist who takes inspiration from pagan myths and gods, but doesn't actually believe in them.
I don't get this.
Can you also be an Atheist Christian?
I guess you can, if you believe in the teachings of Christ (and ascribe those teachings to him), but don't actually believe in his divinity.
There are atheist Jews who believe in Jewish teachings even though they don't believe in God.
I don't see that working in practise, since the lion's share of Christ's supposed teachings are related to worshipping God.
-
Neither have I, for that matter. What exactly is an atheist Pagan?
An atheist who takes inspiration from pagan myths and gods, but doesn't actually believe in them.
I don't get this.
Can you also be an Atheist Christian?
I guess you can, if you believe in the teachings of Christ (and ascribe those teachings to him), but don't actually believe in his divinity.
There are atheist Jews who believe in Jewish teachings even though they don't believe in God.
I don't see that working in practise, since the lion's share of Christ's supposed teachings are related to worshipping God.
It's like being a regular Christian, but with even more cherry picking! That's how I imagine it, at least. Then again, why associate with Christianity at all just because you happen to agree with some things in it?
-
Vene had it about right with his post.
An atheist... Whatever, would be someone who follows the philosophy of the religion, but doesn't necessarily follow the ritualistic and afterlife aspects of the faith.
Basically, an atheist Christian would be someone who follows the philosophy of Jesusism (Google it), but doesn't believe in the afterlife and theistic qualities.
-
Apparently magic is chemistry. I guess I study life magic.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize that you used herbs to do things that are not directly physically related to what you did with the herbs.
-
Apparently magic is chemistry. I guess I study life magic.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize that you used herbs to do things that are not directly physically related to what you did with the herbs.
About half of what you listed were due to physical interactions, the other half have absolutely zero evidence that it works. If you have evidence that burning weeds to a god does anything, please inform me of it.
-
Apparently magic is chemistry. I guess I study life magic.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize that you used herbs to do things that are not directly physically related to what you did with the herbs.
Sounds like faith-healing to me.
-
Neither have I, for that matter. What exactly is an atheist Pagan?
An atheist who takes inspiration from pagan myths and gods, but doesn't actually believe in them.
I don't get this.
Can you also be an Atheist Christian?
I guess you can, if you believe in the teachings of Christ (and ascribe those teachings to him), but don't actually believe in his divinity.
There are atheist Jews who believe in Jewish teachings even though they don't believe in God.
I don't see that working in practise, since the lion's share of Christ's supposed teachings are related to worshipping God.
It's like being a regular Christian, but with even more cherry picking! That's how I imagine it, at least. Then again, why associate with Christianity at all just because you happen to agree with some things in it?
That's exactly how I feel about atheist pagans. If you don't actually believe in the supernatural, it just seems like you're an atheist who has an interest in pagan mythologies to me.
-
Ey, you burn whatever plants you like to whatever god you want for whatever reason you can think of. So long as no one gets hurt, and no one has their rights violated, it shouldn't matter if there's any scientific veracity to their claims. Do as you will, just don't hurt anyone or violate their rights.
-
That's exactly how I feel about atheist pagans. If you don't actually believe in the supernatural, it just seems like you're an atheist who has an interest in pagan mythologies to me.
By that logic, all historians who've studied ancient mythology qualify as pagans.
-
Ey, you burn whatever plants you like to whatever god you want for whatever reason you can think of. So long as no one gets hurt, and no one has their rights violated, it shouldn't matter if there's any scientific veracity to their claims. Do as you will, just don't hurt anyone or violate their rights.
That's all well and good, except it doesn't work that way. The unverifiable, but mostly benign, nonsense gives credibility to the unverifiable, but clearly dangerous, nonsense. The same thought processes are in both and fueling the one fuels the other. The same people who think a megadose of vitamin c will help colds are the same people who think that vaccines prove autism.
-
I don't know… I always feel better after burning Kansas.
-
AdminHat on
So uh...
I'm just gonna close that report. I'm sorry, but that was just dumb. And a waste of my time. <_<;
I don't see how that statement/question was flame-bait/trolling. In any case... please think carefully before making a report and yelling that it's flame-baiting/trolling.
If I'm the one handling the report, I will tell you straight up that I think that it was a stupid report and a waste of your time and mine. And to not do that again. :U
AdminHat off
-
Ey, you burn whatever plants you like to whatever god you want for whatever reason you can think of. So long as no one gets hurt, and no one has their rights violated, it shouldn't matter if there's any scientific veracity to their claims. Do as you will, just don't hurt anyone or violate their rights.
Um... Yes. Yes it should.
-
Didn't we have this type of argument BEFORE?
At any rate, I think we can all agree Gary Marriage isn't Paganism.
-
Didn't we have this type of argument BEFORE?
At any rate, I think we can all agree Gary Marriage isn't Paganism.
Nice typo. :P I started giggling at the idea of a couple going to get a marriage license:
"Name?"
"Gary S--"
"Sorry, Gary Marriage isn't allowed in this state."
-
>.> I could've sworn I fixed that earlier. Ah well.