Julian Assange granted asylum by Ecuador

[VirtualStranger]

Can I just say that I'm really pissed off that people are calling this "surprise sex"? Uh, no. "Surprise sex" is rape. Call it rape. And nickerson, pressuring someone into sex is also rape.

I like Wikileaks. I like Assange's work. I don't think he or anyone else should go to jail for exposing government shit. I think he should go to jail for what he actually did, which is rape. It is, in fact, possible to support him as an agent of transparency while also calling him out for being a rapist and an asshole.

You're pretty quick to call him a rapist when he hasn't been tried and nobody knows whether the charges are true or not. How do you apparently know he's guilty?

Also, "Surprise Sex" is the specific thing he was being charged with under Swedish law, and it's considered a fairly minor crime.

[MadCatTLX]

*Looks around thread at Nickerson, Ironbite, and others.*
Oh boy...

(skip to 0:45 in the video)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAMiTfSU7ZA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAMiTfSU7ZA</a>

One, pressuring a women to have sex with you is not rape.

Do we really want to have this conversation? Because I'm fairly sure that it is going to dissolve into a lot of swearing on my end and a lot of douchefuckery on yours.

I thought all of us had had this conversation before, like a few times I think?

Second, you you can support him for his work with wikileaks and call him a rapist.  What you can't do is say he should not answer for those rape charges just because him might also faces charges you don't like. 

Which I did not say. At all. Have I said anything at all to that effect? Please, quote me saying that he shouldn't face rape charges. I fucking dare you.

I was going to call him on completely missing what you were saying, but you beat me to it.

Edit: Damn, it's hard to post with all the new replies coming in.

[largeham]

There has been no trial, he has not been convicted, and IIRC the Swedish police already let him go once.

Also Ecudar aren't exactly known for freedom of speech, which makes this whole thing by Julian hypocritical in the extreme.

And the USA and UK are wonderful open, transparent democracies. Anyway, it's international politics, no one is clean. Assange is simply going to a country he believes will protect (and they will, few South American countries have any love for America). Also, remember how much support Britain gave to Pinochet.

[Witchyjoshy]

From what I heard, the definition of the "Surprise Sex" charge was that they were having consensual sex, the condom broke mid-way, and he kept going even though she wanted to stop.

Terrible, yes.  Difficult to prove?  Also yes.  Suspicious timing?  Further yes.

That doesn't mean he's not guilty.  Just getting that out of the way.  And it doesn't mean the woman accusing him is a bad woman, either.  If he gets "presumed innocent until proven guilty", so must she.

That being said, it's possible to condemn a man for his faults adn crimes and praise him for his success.  Right now, people are concerned that the rape allegations are being used to extradite him to the US where he would face a punishment, not for rape, but for WikiLeaks.

[m52nickerson]

Do we really want to have this conversation? Because I'm fairly sure that it is going to dissolve into a lot of swearing on my end and a lot of douchefuckery on yours.

Sure, do you want to make a separate thread or should I?

Which I did not say. At all. Have I said anything at all to that effect? Please, quote me saying that he shouldn't face rape charges. I fucking dare you.

I never said you did.  I was not accusing you of anything, I was just making a point. 

[Witchyjoshy]

Hoo boy...

Yes, take it to another thread, please.  :-/

[Lt. Fred]

If Assange is guilty of rape he is a scumbag who deserves to be sentenced and sent to jail in Sweden. What he doesn't deserve is to be sent to a country with a recent record of human rights violations and a reason to be pissed off at him. If the Swedish officials were only interested in investigating the rape accusations and not sending him to the US they could have questioned him in the UK.

They could have questioned him in the UK, but they wanted him on Swedish soil.

The question asked was not 'did Sweden want Assange on Swedish soil', because everyone knows the answer. Nor was it 'does Sweden have a right to demand Assange come onto Swedish soil', because everyone knows the answer. The question was 'WHY does Sweden want Assange in Sweden when they have an alternative, WHY do they refuse to give assurance he will not be extradited to the US and WHETHER they have some ulterior motive for this.

Do try to answer the question asked, rather than going off on your own irrelevant tangent like you always do.

That is there prerogative and they went through the proper channels to do so.  Also the US has every right to prosecute him with any crimes he may have committed again the US government.

Completely irrelevant.

[m52nickerson]

If Sweden wants to honor extradition treaty with the US it's okay with me.  If the US feels Assange has broke the law they have that right. 

[VirtualStranger]

The Pirate Bay incidents have proved that Sweden is willing to violate their own constitution just because the US demands them to. Sweden was outed as just another country beholden to US business interests by ........... (wait for it) ........... wikileaks.

http://torrentfreak.com/sweden-threatened-with-trade-sanctions-by-the-us-over-the-piratebay/

(click to show/hide)

Sweden threatened with Trade Sanctions by the US over the Piratebay

Hollywood, The MPAA and the US government demanded action from the Swedish government. If Sweden decided not to give in to their wishes the US would impose trade sanctions.

According to IT prosecutor Hakan Rosswall the USA pressured the Swedish government and threatened to blacklist the Swedes within the WTO (World Trade Organization).

Swedish secretary of state Dan Eliasson confirmed the information

http://torrentfreak.com/wikileaks-cable-shows-us-involvement-in-swedish-anti-piracy-efforts-101207/

(click to show/hide)

It is no secret that the US Government has been actively involved in copyright enforcement in other countries, including Sweden. After the raid on The Pirate Bay’s servers in 2006, it became clear that the US had threatened to put Sweden on the WTO’s black list if they refused to deal with the Pirate Bay problem.

But that was not the end of the ‘collaboration’ between the US and Sweden on this front.

According to an unreleased US Embassy cable in possession of Swedish Television, the US pressure on Sweden to deal with file-sharing issues continued in the years that followed. In the cable, which dates back to 2008, the US Embassy presented a list of six items that they wanted to see addressed, all related to online copyright infringement.

A year later, five of these six items were indeed turned into action, including the appointment of more copyright police and prosecutors, backed up by educational anti-piracy campaigns. Of course, the Pirate Bay wasn’t left unmentioned in this cable either.

Based on that it doesn't seem so unlikely that a couple days after Assange arrives in Sweden he's on a black plane to Guantanamo or Diego Garcia without the justice system even having a say in it. You certainly don't need to ask a judge for permission anytime you throw someone out of the country for "administrative" reasons.

[Lt. Fred]

If Sweden wants to honor extradition treaty with the US it's okay with me.  If the US feels Assange has broke the law they have that right.

Fair enough. Assange is, similarly, under no obligation to accept prosecution from the US government.

[m52nickerson]

If Sweden wants to honor extradition treaty with the US it's okay with me.  If the US feels Assange has broke the law they have that right.

Fair enough. Assange is, similarly, under no obligation to accept prosecution from the US government.

He does not have to accept it.  That's not how it works.

[kefkaownsall]

Also many countries refuse to acknowledge extradition in cases of capital punishment (Mexico does this)

[Lt. Fred]

If Sweden wants to honor extradition treaty with the US it's okay with me.  If the US feels Assange has broke the law they have that right.

Fair enough. Assange is, similarly, under no obligation to accept prosecution from the US government.

He does not have to accept it.  That's not how it works.

Ecuador says you're full of shit.

[Distind]

Ecuador says you're full of shit.

No, it says "Nyanya a foofoo" and is probably waggling it's ass at things.

It has no requirement to turn him over while he's on their property. The moment his ass sets foot in a country that does, or would like to just be rid of him, he'll wind up in sweden if he's lucky.

[Lt. Fred]

Ecuador says you're full of shit.

No, it says "Nyanya a foofoo" and is probably waggling it's ass at things.

It has no requirement to turn him over while he's on their property. The moment his ass sets foot in a country that does, or would like to just be rid of him, he'll wind up in sweden if he's lucky.

They can make him an Ecuadorian citizen and then a member of diplomatic staff, with all the immunity of their spies. What I'm saying is, if m52nickerson is right and might makes right, Ecuador and wikileaks are right.