U.S. government secretly collecting data on millions of Verizon users

[wyvern999]

How many Americans were killed by terrorists last year? Almost none. How many Americans were killed by other Americans with a gun? 30,000. (Five more killed in California yesterday)

Billions of dollars are spent and privacy invaded on anti terrorist measures to defend against an inconsequentially small threat yet any move to control guns and those who have access to them are resisted tooth and claw.

How people can agree that keeping records of the phone calls and emails of the entire population is OK while at the same time oppose background checks for gun buyers is totally wrong is beyond me.

Maybe it's time to reconsider your priorities. Is this really the "freedom" that has to be protected so much? I was under the impression that the idea is to stop the maximum number of Americans from being killed or injured by acts of violence. Well really maybe you should be looking a lot closer to home because when it comes to killing Americans the terrorists just can't compete with your average nutcase with an assault rifle and a thousand rounds of ammunition all legally bought without any questions asked at all.

[chitoryu12]

I'm resisting the urge to correct your misinformation about assault rifles.

It's not working well.

[Damen]

I'm resisting the urge to correct your misinformation about assault rifles.

It's not working well.

I have a better idea; how about we just keep this thread focused on the U.S. government's pissing all over the 4th Amendment and that way if Wyvern wants to have another gun control hissy he can make a gun control thread and flog that dead horse some more or make a post in a thread that actually might be related to guns instead of trying to derail this one.

So, on that note, allow me to bring this back on topic.

I just found this article that is making me think "Shame on you, President."

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama declared Friday that America is "going to have to make some choices" balancing privacy and security, launching a vigorous defense of formerly secret programs that sweep up an estimated 3 billion phone calls a day and amass Internet data from U.S. providers in an attempt to thwart terror attacks.

He warned that it will be harder to detect threats against the U.S. now that the two top-secret tools to target terrorists have been so thoroughly publicized.

At turns defensive and defiant, Obama stood by the spy programs revealed this week.

The National Security Agency has been collecting the phone records of hundreds of millions of Americans each day, creating a database through which it can learn whether terror suspects have been in contact with people in the U.S. It also was disclosed this week that the NSA has been gathering all Internet usage – audio, video, photographs, emails and searches – from nine major U.S. Internet providers, including Microsoft and Google, in hopes of detecting suspicious behavior that begins overseas.

"Nobody is listening to your telephone calls," Obama assured the nation after two days of reports that many found unsettling. What the government is doing, he said, is digesting phone numbers and the durations of calls, seeking links that might "identify potential leads with respect to folks who might engage in terrorism." If there's a hit, he said, "if the intelligence community then actually wants to listen to a phone call, they've got to go back to a federal judge, just like they would in a criminal investigation."

I'm sorry, Obama, but I have a serious problem with this. I don't give a shit if you are or are not listening in; if I have done no wrong and am not suspected of doing any wrong then you have no right to know who the flying fuck I am or am not calling or how long I'm talking to them for.

[m52nickerson]

I have a better idea; how about we just keep this thread focused on the U.S. government's pissing all over the 4th Amendment...

They are really not.

For one thing the Verizon records were obtained after getting a warrant from the FISA court.  Second Smith v. Maryland established that the phone numbers you dial are not private since you giver those numbers to the phone companies in order for them to connect you.

[MadCatTLX]

I have a better idea; how about we just keep this thread focused on the U.S. government's pissing all over the 4th Amendment and that way if Wyvern wants to have another gun control hissy he can make a gun control thread and flog that dead horse some more or make a post in a thread that actually might be related to guns instead of trying to derail this one.

Dude, the horse's flesh rotted off a couple months ago. Then the bones that were left got macerated, by hand, and are now used for calcium supplements for chickens and ducks. At this point Wyvern's punching a bare patch of dirt in the middle of a field. I think he's scaring the cows, and damn it, that makes the milk taste bad.

[agentCDE]

Benjamin Franklin is rolling in his grave.

[Dakota Bob]

The whistleblower has revealed his identity and is currently riding this out in Hong Kong

[Stormwarden]

MadCatTLX: *applauds* Bravo. I would have said that he was raping the dead horse, but your analogy works much better. Thanks for that.

To get back to the topic: I beg to differ, but then, if it were up to me, the whole damn Patriot Act would be ripped out of the law books, used as TP, and then thrown out with the rest of the garbage.

[Damen]

MadCatTLX: *applauds* Bravo. I would have said that he was raping the dead horse, but your analogy works much better. Thanks for that.

To get back to the topic: I beg to differ, but then, if it were up to me, the whole damn Patriot Act would be ripped out of the law books, used as TP, and then thrown out with the rest of the garbage.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't sully the beauty that is my anus by touching it with something as filthy as the Patriot Act.

I say we just skip to burning it. It's existence is a stain upon this nation.

[rookie]

Interesting. I see this as more of a "trap" or at least political move for setting up the 2014 midterms. Either the GOP has to scream loudly against it. That would mean the Patriot Act (brainchild of the Bush administration) was a big mistake, giving the Executive branch way too much power. Or Obama is getting serious on fighting terrorism (whatever that means). And the DNC would look better to, um, somebody.

I came up with this based on the following. Verizon is the sole provider for Congressional offices, along with a good chunk of the rest of the government. And it was a British news agency who broke the story. And the way Sen. Graham reacted, it made me think this was planned.

[Osama bin Bambi]

The whistleblower has revealed his identity and is currently riding this out in Hong Kong

>Wants to go to Iceland

Isn't this the same country that banned internet porn?

Also I like how when you google Edward's name this condemning article is the first one that pops up.

[ScrappyB]

While I wish that Snowden hadn't gone to Hong Kong because it's under the influence of China, I have to admit on a personal level the choice was probably a smart one.

China is one of the few countries unlikely to roll over to pressure from the US, and also one of the few the US can't afford to piss off by just going in and grabbing him.

[Osama bin Bambi]

"Fox & Friends" is now suddenly and conveniently against the wiretapping they supported under Bush.

Around and around it goes...

[Dakota Bob]

"Fox & Friends" is now suddenly and conveniently against the wiretapping they supported under Bush.

Around and around it goes...

The ride, it never ends.

[ScrappyB]

What gets me is all the character assassination levied at Snowden. Not just the traitor accusations, but the people saying he did it for glory or fame or because he's a narcissist or whatever. I don't give a flying fuck why he did it.

The guy who brought down the Nixon administration turned out to be an asshole who probably did it for petty revenge. The character of the whistleblower didn't make what Nixon and his cronies did OK, and it doesn't make this mass spying OK either.