Worst of Social Justice

[Askold]

Weird how a lot of seperatists like that are also TERFS who'll team up with the craziest most patriarchal redpillers in the MRA/MGTOW pile if it helps stomp on trans people.

Poor woman. She never heard of the Cowgirl/Reverse Cowgirl positions.

Or femdom. And seems to be in denial about the existence of consensual sex between a man and a woman for that matter as well.

[rageaholic]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/aaminah-khan/10-ways-to-be-a-better-male-feminist_b_4227969.html

or "10 ways to make feminism look more like a cult than a movement for equality" (particularly the last point).  The author seems like a total CUNT.

[Even Then]

...how is it bad to remind men that they don't intimately understand misogyny, because they haven't lived it? Or encourage them to stand against misogyny in their everyday life? Honestly, most of this article is fairly reasonable: don't presume you know the thing better than the person actually living the thing, don't expect back pats for being a male feminist, don't get offended if you're not automatically trusted etc.

[Ultimate Paragon]

...how is it bad to remind men that they don't intimately understand misogyny, because they haven't lived it? Or encourage them to stand against misogyny in their everyday life? Honestly, most of this article is fairly reasonable: don't presume you know the thing better than the person actually living the thing, don't expect back pats for being a male feminist, don't get offended if you're not automatically trusted etc.

Well, the article's not entirely unreasonable, but there are a few things I take issue with.  Let me give some examples.

Under the guise of "feminism," men have sexually harassed and raped women whose trust they'd gained, used their positions of influence to bully and silence women (Hugo Schwyzer, anyone?) and even gotten away with murder. No, you probably won't do any of those things-- but we can't be sure of that. So be prepared for a little hostility.

Translation: "Expect to be presumed guilty until proven innocent."

Your buddies all tell rape jokes. They make you feel awkward, but you don't say anything because you don't want to be That Guy -- the one who kills the buzz, the one who's the PC Police all the time. You smile awkwardly when your bestie tells women to make him a sandwich even though you think it's not really that funny, and you let yourself be drawn into discussions that degrade women even though that's not your intent.

Yeah, that needs to stop.

If you want to do something concrete -- and I'm guessing you do -- this is the best place to start. Call out sexism when you see it. Tell your buddies those rape jokes aren't cool. Roll your eyes at your friend's sandwich jokes and tell him he's being an ass. When you witness street harassment, step up and say something. Be the guy who doesn't let other guys talk shit about women behind their backs. Be the guy who never lets "she was asking for it" stand.

Translation: "Edgy jokes are a Big Fucking Deal^TM and you should call out your friends for doing something that doesn't hurt anything except the feelings of people who may not even be present.  Also, jokes with friends are morally equivalent to sexual harassment."

I think I've kept my tone fairly light thus far, but most of the time, if I'm talking about social justice, I'm pretty goddamn angry. This is a natural response to being discriminated against for being a woman for my entire life. I know that anger can be very confronting and a little off-putting, but there are reasons for that, those reasons being that a) the reality of existence as a female in our society is pretty confronting, and b) being faced with brutal, unpleasant truths is naturally very off-putting.

You might be tempted to say something about catching more flies with honey. The thing is, we're not trying to catch flies. We're trying to change the world, and you don't change the world with niceness (believe me, even Gandhi was a manipulative old bastard -- no activist is ever as serene as they may seem). As my dad was fond of saying: the reasonable man adapts himself to the world, whereas the unreasonable man adapts the world to himself; therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

We're the unreasonable women, and we're adapting the world to ourselves, because that's how you get things done. Telling us to calm down is tone policing, and if you'd like an explanation of why that's a terrible thing to do, click that link above and prepare to feel like you've just been slapped in the face repeatedly by several angry women all at once.

Translation: "It's unreasonable to expect us to present our arguments in a rational, civilized manner.  And if we can't win hearts and minds by shrieking like barn owls with megaphones, it's society's fault.  Besides, we don't need the support of the masses for change to take hold.  It's not like public relations are important or anything."

Also, the fact that there's no comments section?  Bit of a red flag.

[Askold]

Honestly, that does sound like the standard cult treatment where you are made to feel like you are worthless or at least a horrible sinner and that the poor treatment you get is something that you deserve. Bonus points for how the only way for you to be a good person is by enduring that treatment and still being loyal with a promise of redemption somewhere in the future.

[Eiki-mun]

Honestly, that does sound like the standard cult treatment where you are made to feel like you are worthless or at least a horrible sinner and that the poor treatment you get is something that you deserve. Bonus points for how the only way for you to be a good person is by enduring that treatment and still being loyal with a promise of redemption somewhere in the future.

...so, the Catholic Church?

[Even Then]

I disagree. "Your people have hurt us, so don't expect to be automatically trusted" is reasonable in my opinion. If a white person wanted to be part of a BLM rally, one would expect there to be some distrust at first because white people systemically fuck black people over in the USA. It's the same principle, yes?

and I really don't think "what do you want, a fucking medal for advocating for women" equates to "you are a worthless, horrible sinner" but w/e

[Svata]

Except the fact that it is, y'know, half of earth's population you're automatically assuming to be untrustworthy.

[Askold]

Is it really so rare for men to support feminism or whites to support minorities that anyone claiming so is likely to be scheming something?

[Damen]

And the inescapable fact that it is still guilt by association. And the article itself comes off less like "here's how to help the cause" and more like "your opinions don't matter so sit down, shut up and listen to your vaginal overlords." Acting like a misandrist is not the way to combat misogyny.

[Ultimate Paragon]

Honestly, that does sound like the standard cult treatment where you are made to feel like you are worthless or at least a horrible sinner and that the poor treatment you get is something that you deserve. Bonus points for how the only way for you to be a good person is by enduring that treatment and still being loyal with a promise of redemption somewhere in the future.

...so, the Catholic Church?

Not exactly.  For one thing, the Catholic Church teaches that all humans are sinners.

I disagree. "Your people have hurt us, so don't expect to be automatically trusted" is reasonable in my opinion. If a white person wanted to be part of a BLM rally, one would expect there to be some distrust at first because white people systemically fuck black people over in the USA. It's the same principle, yes?

and I really don't think "what do you want, a fucking medal for advocating for women" equates to "you are a worthless, horrible sinner" but w/e

Do you honestly believe that all white Americans willingly and knowingly take part in keeping African-Americans down?  Certainly, black people are systematically discriminated against, but to hold all white people responsible for it is ridiculous.  There are many, many white people who are against the discrimination faced by black people.  Many white people have worked for the betterment of African-Americans in both the past and the present, and this will most likely be true in the future.  Some, like James Reeb, actually died because they tried to help blacks.

In any case, why should people be judged by the color of their skin or by their genitalia?  I believe that people should be judged as individuals.  And if a white person wants to take part in a BLM rally, that kind of implies that they care enough about African-Americans to be willing to take action.

I'm not asking for a medal.  All I'm asking is to be treated like a human being.

[Even Then]

Irrational, sure. However,

- the article specifically refers to people who call themselves male feminists having hurt and abused women under that pretext ,which is a way smaller subset
- the matter isn't "individual men have harmed women", it is "'man' as a social class fucks over women (and men)". Distrust is, in my opinion, more understandable when it's the latter.

And honestly, people aren't entitled to trust and thinking otherwise is, well, entitled as nobs. If I, a Finn, tried to enter a Sami space as a Sami advocate and got treated with apprehension, I wouldn't think "those uppity Sami are being unreasonable" because Finland as a nation and Finns as a group do fuck the Sami over on a structural level.

For me, the article comes off as "listen to the people actually experiencing the thing instead of assuming".

[mellenORL]

She's trying to make some good points, but is not a professional writer. Writing regular blogposts does not automatically mean you are gifted at communicating concepts, or will manage to clearly convey your intent to everybody.

The format she used managed to make her points come off as very condescending, as if she's working hard at dumbing it down for the boys, when I think her intent was to try to make it conversational and non-threatening. Oops. Also, I think she may be inexperienced enough that she is a bit paranoid around men in general, but that is a common trait for just about all younger women.

Negative experiences with men tend to make women wary by nature, and those experiences happen to all women at least once during their life times. I've had some close calls, and a couple of minor physical assaults, typical of most women in the world. Even though I know these incidents were outliers and a matter of bad luck, it's natural to be wary because of them. With age and "practice", most women outgrow at least the conscious wariness around unknown men, but believe me, it's still there in the background.

[Eiki-mun]

I'm just gonna be over here listening to Mellen (she's got a gold head on her shoulders) and flicking packing peanuts at the rest of ya.

Flick, flick.

[Even Then]

Seconding the notion of Mellen's cranium being composed of a precious metal of some description or another.

But I'm dropping this, because it's becoming clear that these different views can't be reconciled or if they can, it would be more frustrating and draining than I honestly feel I have the energy for. I do like being happy every now and then too.