FSTDT Forums
Community => Politics and Government => Topic started by: Stormwarden on January 05, 2012, 02:21:41 am
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http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Dallas-Teen-Is--Mistakenly-Deported--136626533.html
A teenage girl went missing in 2010, has been found in Colombia. Now, by the title of the thread, you know why she was there. She not only got deported by ICE, but she's a US citizen, black, and oh yeah, doesn't speak a lick of Spanish.
In all fairness, the fake name the girl gave DID match that of an illegal immigrant who was wanted on a number of warrants. She's not completely innocent in it, but her inability to speak Spanish should have set off warning bells all over the place. ICE failed to confirm her identity via fingerprints, and didn't take a closer look at the evidence.
Someone's going to lose their job over this SNAFU...
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.....so for 2 years this chick's been in Colombia doing...what exactly?
Ironbite-trying to prove who she was when it should've been FUCKING OBVIOUS WHEN SHE GOT THERE!?
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Wow. That is just... I'm not sure whether to laugh hysterically at their incompetence or to rage at the fact that they deported a fourteen-year-old who is now in a Colombian jail.
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Actually, she was household help, having to do a huge amount of cleaning, according to the article.
Mea culpa (sp on both?) on this one, but I should have added the Colombian government to this clusterfuck. They've refused to release her back to US custody. Makes me wonder what on earth is going on over there. Times like this are why I have an angry demiplane.
EDIT: Thanks for the clarification, Nap
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*Mea culpa
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Dallas Morning News has reported she's also pregnant, which makes me wonder if that's part of the reason the Colombian government is so reluctant to let her leave.
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She's not completely innocent in it, but her inability to speak Spanish should have set off warning bells all over the place. ICE failed to confirm her identity via fingerprints, and didn't take a closer look at the evidence.
She could easily fake not speaking Spanish. As for fingerprints, the person she was mistaken for was wanted on a warrant. Since the article does not say what the warrant is for, it's possible the person in question does not have their fingerprints on file. As a 14-year old, it's also very likely the girl did not have fingerprints on record. End result - running her prints likely would have told them nothing.
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One more thing to say about fingerprinting, it's not very reliable.
A 2006 study by the University of Southampton in England asked six veteran fingerprint examiners to study prints taken from actual criminal cases. The experts were not told that they had previously examined the same prints. The researchers' goal was to determine if contextual informationâ€â€for example, some prints included a notation that the suspect had already confessedâ€â€would affect the results. But the experiment revealed a far more serious problem: The analyses of fingerprint examiners were often inconsistent regardless of context. Only two of the six experts reached the same conclusions on second examination as they had on the first.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/forensics/4325774 (http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/forensics/4325774)
As such, using them for identification purposes doesn't really mean anything.
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Wow.
I can believe it. I'm sure after deporting the numbers of people they do, she hardly registered on the "something fishy" list. Why in the hell would she give them a fake name anyways?
Bet she'll think twice before stealing again though.
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I don't get why the Colombian government gave her a work permit. Did they realize she wasn't Colombian, or do they do that for all citizens?
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I don't get why the Colombian government gave her a work permit. Did they realize she wasn't Colombian, or do they do that for all citizens?
I think that whole "work permit" thing is uniquly American. They dont have it in most countrys.
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Why in the hell would she give them a fake name anyways?
This, so fucking much this.
That said I'm keeping this for future reference, should I have kids, I'll be sure to tell them that lying to the officials can get your dumb ass deported. And now I'll have evidence.
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Why in the hell would she give them a fake name anyways?
Presumably to keep her identity a secret. /captain obvious
In all seriousness, she was a runaway. She probably didn't want to go home then, and was afraid she'd get sent back to her divorced parents if she gave her real name.
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Whoever did this ought to have "INCOMPETENT" branded on their forehead, before having their asses fired.
Come to think of it, we might want to brand their asses as well.
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At first blush (and I feel furious with myself over it) I blamed the victim in giving the fake name in the first place. Seriously, I felt rotten over it and like the worst person in the world.
After a bit more thinking I had to wonder how you can confuse a 14 year old for a 22 year old. Did we also not try to do face matching? Then there was the incompetence of the fingerprinting and everything else.
All in all a rotten thing. But... I read something about her getting on to Facebook and talking about her job. That should have set off warning bells too.
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There are plenty of people that share the same name. So you gotta go by more than just the damn name when putting someone through the legal wringer.
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I think there's plenty of blame to go around. It frightens me, however, to see how badly they botched the whole situation. I talked to my mother about it, and she placed the blame on the teen. As noted by Jack Mann, she was also pregnant. To me, it might be rape, but we'll have to wait for more details.
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Why in the hell would she give them a fake name anyways?
Presumably to keep her identity a secret. /captain obvious
In all seriousness, she was a runaway. She probably didn't want to go home then, and was afraid she'd get sent back to her divorced parents if she gave her real name.
Let's see, false name, deportation...real name, get sent home and can easily leave again...hmm, which would i choose?
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At first blush (and I feel furious with myself over it) I blamed the victim in giving the fake name in the first place. Seriously, I felt rotten over it and like the worst person in the world.
After a bit more thinking I had to wonder how you can confuse a 14 year old for a 22 year old. Did we also not try to do face matching? Then there was the incompetence of the fingerprinting and everything else.
All in all a rotten thing. But... I read something about her getting on to Facebook and talking about her job. That should have set off warning bells too.
Chances are if they don't have prints, they don't have a picture either.
And seriously? I've known a few young teens that could pass as adults, and a few adults that could pass as kids. Given the amount of traffic through ICE, I'm sure it wasn't all that hard a mistake to make
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Well, she certainly got her wish of not being sent home.
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Let's see, false name, deportation...real name, get sent home and can easily leave again...hmm, which would i choose?
By the time she realized she was risking deportation, it was probably too late. They wouldn’t believe her if she changed her story.
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But brown people belong in brown people countries! They'll blend in! /racist
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At first blush (and I feel furious with myself over it) I blamed the victim in giving the fake name in the first place. Seriously, I felt rotten over it and like the worst person in the world.
After a bit more thinking I had to wonder how you can confuse a 14 year old for a 22 year old. Did we also not try to do face matching? Then there was the incompetence of the fingerprinting and everything else.
All in all a rotten thing. But... I read something about her getting on to Facebook and talking about her job. That should have set off warning bells too.
Chances are if they don't have prints, they don't have a picture either.
And seriously? I've known a few young teens that could pass as adults, and a few adults that could pass as kids. Given the amount of traffic through ICE, I'm sure it wasn't all that hard a mistake to make
Perhaps so. But if someone has a warrant out for their arrest there should be a picture you can use which takes little time at all (though admittedly sometimes there isn't even that). As I said, more incompetence.
It's a clusterfuck all around.
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Wondered when they'd end up deporting US citizens. I knew it was really only a matter of time, and I also highly doubt they'll change their procedures over this (or at least not enough to really do anything).
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There are plenty of people that share the same name. So you gotta go by more than just the damn name when putting someone through the legal wringer.
This. If she gave the name "Maria Lopez" or some stereotypical name like that, how could they know the difference between her and any other Maria Lopez in the world?
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At first blush (and I feel furious with myself over it) I blamed the victim in giving the fake name in the first place. Seriously, I felt rotten over it and like the worst person in the world.
After a bit more thinking I had to wonder how you can confuse a 14 year old for a 22 year old. Did we also not try to do face matching? Then there was the incompetence of the fingerprinting and everything else.
All in all a rotten thing. But... I read something about her getting on to Facebook and talking about her job. That should have set off warning bells too.
Chances are if they don't have prints, they don't have a picture either.
And seriously? I've known a few young teens that could pass as adults, and a few adults that could pass as kids. Given the amount of traffic through ICE, I'm sure it wasn't all that hard a mistake to make
Perhaps so. But if someone has a warrant out for their arrest there should be a picture you can use which takes little time at all (though admittedly sometimes there isn't even that). As I said, more incompetence.
It's a clusterfuck all around.
Yes, it would be nice if warrants had a picture. But there's what we wish, and then there's reality. Sometimes they only have a picture drawn up by description.
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At first blush (and I feel furious with myself over it) I blamed the victim in giving the fake name in the first place. Seriously, I felt rotten over it and like the worst person in the world.
After a bit more thinking I had to wonder how you can confuse a 14 year old for a 22 year old. Did we also not try to do face matching? Then there was the incompetence of the fingerprinting and everything else.
All in all a rotten thing. But... I read something about her getting on to Facebook and talking about her job. That should have set off warning bells too.
Chances are if they don't have prints, they don't have a picture either.
And seriously? I've known a few young teens that could pass as adults, and a few adults that could pass as kids. Given the amount of traffic through ICE, I'm sure it wasn't all that hard a mistake to make
Perhaps so. But if someone has a warrant out for their arrest there should be a picture you can use which takes little time at all (though admittedly sometimes there isn't even that). As I said, more incompetence.
It's a clusterfuck all around.
Yes, it would be nice if warrants had a picture. But there's what we wish, and then there's reality. Sometimes they only have a picture drawn up by description.
And that actually makes this less excusable, because they should have been far MORE careful precisely because of their lack of information.
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There's really no excusing it. If they did have the information to make a positive ID, then they didn't use it. If they didn't have it, then they cannot justify deporting someone over it.
What worries me is that these ridiculously lax standards of evidence might be general policy and not a one-off incident.
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At first blush (and I feel furious with myself over it) I blamed the victim in giving the fake name in the first place. Seriously, I felt rotten over it and like the worst person in the world.
After a bit more thinking I had to wonder how you can confuse a 14 year old for a 22 year old. Did we also not try to do face matching? Then there was the incompetence of the fingerprinting and everything else.
All in all a rotten thing. But... I read something about her getting on to Facebook and talking about her job. That should have set off warning bells too.
Chances are if they don't have prints, they don't have a picture either.
And seriously? I've known a few young teens that could pass as adults, and a few adults that could pass as kids. Given the amount of traffic through ICE, I'm sure it wasn't all that hard a mistake to make
Perhaps so. But if someone has a warrant out for their arrest there should be a picture you can use which takes little time at all (though admittedly sometimes there isn't even that). As I said, more incompetence.
It's a clusterfuck all around.
Yes, it would be nice if warrants had a picture. But there's what we wish, and then there's reality. Sometimes they only have a picture drawn up by description.
Did say sometimes there isn't even that.
I guess my point is 1) They didn't exhaust all possibilities. 2) They probably didn't even care. 3) It's rotten all around.
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There's really no excusing it. If they did have the information to make a positive ID, then they didn't use it. If they didn't have it, then they cannot justify deporting someone over it.
What worries me is that these ridiculously lax standards of evidence might be general policy and not a one-off incident.
That would indeed be worrying. And I am certain there will be a full investigation into… Aw, hell, no I’m not. >:(
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At first blush (and I feel furious with myself over it) I blamed the victim in giving the fake name in the first place. Seriously, I felt rotten over it and like the worst person in the world.
After a bit more thinking I had to wonder how you can confuse a 14 year old for a 22 year old. Did we also not try to do face matching? Then there was the incompetence of the fingerprinting and everything else.
All in all a rotten thing. But... I read something about her getting on to Facebook and talking about her job. That should have set off warning bells too.
Chances are if they don't have prints, they don't have a picture either.
And seriously? I've known a few young teens that could pass as adults, and a few adults that could pass as kids. Given the amount of traffic through ICE, I'm sure it wasn't all that hard a mistake to make
Perhaps so. But if someone has a warrant out for their arrest there should be a picture you can use which takes little time at all (though admittedly sometimes there isn't even that). As I said, more incompetence.
It's a clusterfuck all around.
Yes, it would be nice if warrants had a picture. But there's what we wish, and then there's reality. Sometimes they only have a picture drawn up by description.
Did say sometimes there isn't even that.
I guess my point is 1) They didn't exhaust all possibilities. 2) They probably didn't even care. 3) It's rotten all around.
And my point wasn't focusing on that. It was that's what you want, or that's what should be, but reality doesn't work that way
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Except y'know, I admitted that it didn't but whatever makes you happy. I see nothing wrong with having pointed out flaws in the whole process. But again, whatever makes you happy.
Not like I was saying 'it should have happened this way' instead of 'these are the failings'.
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What worries me is that these ridiculously lax standards of evidence might be general policy and not a one-off incident.
I went to the UK to stay with a friend for 3 months. I was detained, and the guy who questioned me believed I was there to work. When I told him I could prove that I was only there to visit, he irately said, "I'm not looking for proof. I'm looking for believability!" Thanks to this dumbass, I was deported, and never got to see my friend while I was there.
That said, at least they could see that I wasn't from the UK, thanks to my American passport. I've been told by some of my international friends that American immigration is even stricter than the UK, but they should at least try to verify which [insert common name] she is, instead of assuming without any evidence that she's an illegal immigrant.
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That is a pretty BIG goof there.
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What worries me is that these ridiculously lax standards of evidence might be general policy and not a one-off incident.
I went to the UK to stay with a friend for 3 months. I was detained, and the guy who questioned me believed I was there to work. When I told him I could prove that I was only there to visit, he irately said, "I'm not looking for proof. I'm looking for believability!" Thanks to this dumbass, I was deported, and never got to see my friend while I was there.
That said, at least they could see that I wasn't from the UK, thanks to my American passport. I've been told by some of my international friends that American immigration is even stricter than the UK, but they should at least try to verify which [insert common name] she is, instead of assuming without any evidence that she's an illegal immigrant.
Yeah, I went through the same thing a couple of years ago. Of course that means that now I have a record, I pretty much won't be able to return - they'll use that as evidence that I'm up to something :(
edit: I haven't had any real problems with US Immigration, though.
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I was worried that this mark would prevent me from other overseas travel, but the Australians weren't fussed about it. :) I'm also going to try again to visit my UK friend again, and think I'll have a better chance next time around.
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Interesting. My aunt - who I was going over to visit - spoke to the Head of Immigration, and he said that I'd need a visa for travelling anywhere within the Commonwealth. Hmm.
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I did have a visa for Australia, because they require it. The UK website says people from some countries, including America, don't need a visa to stay for up to 6 months, as long as we don't work. I didn't have any trouble getting into France without a visa, and I should have been fine without a visa for the UK, because I was following their rules. Unfortunately, I was told after the fact that a visa would have given me a right to appeal before they put me on the plane out of there. I'll certainly apply for a UK visa before I try going there again. I still have the proof that the border control guy was wrong, and will use it if they try to turn me down.
If I were you, Chad, I would apply for a visa and see what happens. If you get the visa but they try to turn you away at the airport, the visa should give you a right to appeal. Then again, I don't know what country you're from, so you should check with UK immigration and make sure before trying again.
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I've made four applications for a tourist visa, and been rejected every time. Different reasons each time; I'm almost done with it now anyway. >:(
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I'm sorry to hear that, and wish I knew a way to help. :( This also makes me wonder about my own chances of visiting there.