FSTDT Forums
Community => Society and History => Topic started by: Askold on July 20, 2013, 01:22:17 am
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23381448
A norwegian woman who was on a business trip to Dubai was raped and after reporting the rape to the police she is now being charged with extra-marital affair, a crime that can land her in jail for 16 months. (along with minor crimes of alcohol use and perjury.)
The problem is that in the UAE, extramarital sex really is a crime , even if it wasn't and affair or consensual sex and by their laws, admitting to being raped she also admitted to having sex outside of marriage.
A horrible law and I'd rather have the international community come down on these assholes like a ton of bricks. If they want to be global and deal with other countries and businesses maybe it's time to update their laws as well.
This whole story is rage inducing. She was raped by a co-worker and when she escaped to the hotel lobby to call to the police the hotel employess warned her not to... In retrospect it seems they wanted to protect her from jail, but these laws are just stupid.
And the only reason she managed to get help from Norway is that she borrowed a phone from another detained woman and made a call she wasn't allowed to do. Norway has at least done the decent thing and got her out of the jail into their custody, with the foreign minister having stern words with UAE representatives.
Meanwhile the rapists might be sentenced to 13 months in jail. Not for rape though, the only way to be convicted from rape is if there are at least four male witnesses or he confesses.
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So what is the co-worker facing?
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I think this is less of a story about how the UAE is a rotten piece of shit and more about how Norway knows exactly what to do when other countries act like rotten pieces of shit.
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So what is the co-worker facing?
Like I said, 13 months for extramarital affair and alcohol consumption.
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So what is the co-worker facing?
Like I said, 13 months for extramarital affair and alcohol consumption.
On the bright side, 13 months there is a lot more hell than 13 months here.
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How did they decide on a minimum of 4 male witnesses in the first place? Don't rapes happen discreetly or something?
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I think this is less of a story about how the UAE is a rotten piece of shit and more about how Norway knows exactly what to do when other countries act like rotten pieces of shit.
My initial thought was "bomb them flat"? but then I realised that's completely retarded and I was reacting emotionally.
Go Norway! You did precisely the right thing. Not like naughty Canada.
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Okay, so she's in Norwegian custody, but only on conditional release? What happens if she's convicted? Would Norway be able to prevent her from being thrown in jail, or once she's sentenced, are they powerless?
I think this is less of a story about how the UAE is a rotten piece of shit and more about how Norway knows exactly what to do when other countries act like rotten pieces of shit.
My initial thought was "bomb them flat"? but then I realised that's completely retarded and I was reacting emotionally.
Go Norway! You did precisely the right thing. Not like naughty Canada.
Apologies for being uninformed, but what exactly are you referring to? But still, Norway seems to be handling this pretty well so far. Canada's pretty useless when it comes to protecting its citizens from shit like this in other countries.
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I think this is less of a story about how the UAE is a rotten piece of shit and more about how Norway knows exactly what to do when other countries act like rotten pieces of shit.
My initial thought was "bomb them flat"? but then I realised that's completely retarded and I was reacting emotionally.
Go Norway! You did precisely the right thing. Not like naughty Canada.
Apologies for being uninformed, but what exactly are you referring to? But still, Norway seems to be handling this pretty well so far. Canada's pretty useless when it comes to protecting its citizens from shit like this in other countries.
[/quote]
My initial thought when chitoryu mentioned Denmark "doing the right thing" regarding this case, my idea of the right thing included carpet bombing. Then I thought about it for literally a second and realised that that's moronic and agreed Denmark has done the right thing. Go Denmark!
In Canadian terms, I meant that case a few years back where the husband/family of a Canadian citizen kidnapped the shit out of her in Dubai and Canada didn't do shit about it.
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In Canadian terms, I meant that case a few years back where the husband/family of a Canadian citizen kidnapped the shit out of her in Dubai and Canada didn't do shit about it.
Oh yeah, I remember that. Yeah, my country is embarrassingly and shamefully useless when shit likes this happens.
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How did they decide on a minimum of 4 male witnesses in the first place? Don't rapes happen discreetly or something?
Old islamic laws/traditions. Not exactly fair on women in general.
And Lt. Fred? Norway and Denmark are not the same country. Even if they are nearby.
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At least this story has a happy ending, sort of. Too many of these kinds of stories involving women being mistreated in foreign countries end horribly, because too many people are too busy worrying about "national sovereignty" or whatever bullshit to do something about blatant violations of their own citizen's basic human rights.
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How did they decide on a minimum of 4 male witnesses in the first place? Don't rapes happen discreetly or something?
Old islamic laws/traditions. Not exactly fair on women in general.
And Lt. Fred? Norway and Denmark are not the same country. Even if they are nearby.
How do I words?
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How did they decide on a minimum of 4 male witnesses in the first place? Don't rapes happen discreetly or something?
I recall reading a book, Cruel and Unusual Punishment by a Muslim woman, Nonie Darwish. I'm not saying that this one book is an infallible source, and I'm not saying I necessarily agree with her, but she more or less said that these laws require four male witnesses so that men can pretty much get away with rape. She made the point that it's unlikely for there to be at least four male witnesses present at a rape who are not...participating...in some way, and they certainly don't want any women having the power to be legal witnesses in a rape trial.
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Okay, so she's in Norwegian custody, but only on conditional release? What happens if she's convicted? Would Norway be able to prevent her from being thrown in jail, or once she's sentenced, are they powerless?
I'm guessing that the Norwegian representatives to the UAE are currently engaging in diplomacy to convince the Arabs to drop the case. If it doesn't happen, I'm hoping Norway will "diplomatically" tell them where they can stick it. They can't exactly invade, and last time I checked Norway's economy didn't rely on Arab trade.
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And to think my new Muslim flatmate said Dubai wasn't that bad compared to other countries...
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And to think my new Muslim flatmate said Dubai wasn't that bad compared to other countries...
The UAE is a shithole. Dubai is a city that pretty much entirely appeals to the wealthy and people with connections. The whole country lives under restrictive religious laws, and human rights are essentially nil unless you've got the money for it.
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And to think my new Muslim flatmate said Dubai wasn't that bad compared to other countries...
It's not. That's because those countries have worse living conditions than the worst times in the worst parts of the Soviet Union.
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Yes, well, he did also tell me I'd do rather poorly there. He's a cool guy, but I'd consider any Middle-Eastern country as something close to an outer suburb of Hell.
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Yes, well, he did also tell me I'd do rather poorly there. He's a cool guy, but I'd consider any Middle-Eastern country as something close to an outer suburb of Hell.
Yeah. They're like the high-class suburbs of hell, while the others are the ghettos and Detroit suburbs of hell.
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Only reason we let this crap go on is because most Arab countries where Sharia law holds the most power have oil. If we weren't so dependent on the crap, we'd be able to tell these countries to go take a hike and piss off when they do shit like this
Ironbite-hence my new power source will be unstable quantum singularities.
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Yes, well, he did also tell me I'd do rather poorly there. He's a cool guy, but I'd consider any Middle-Eastern country as something close to an outer suburb of Hell.
You would do fine in Qatar
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And to think my new Muslim flatmate said Dubai wasn't that bad compared to other countries...
The UAE is a shithole. Dubai is a city that pretty much entirely appeals to the wealthy and people with connections. The whole country lives under restrictive religious laws, and human rights are essentially nil unless you've got the money for it.
Not to completely derail, but I've recently found a lot of music from the UAE that I'd have thought was socially intolerable until about two weeks ago. Not to say that it disproves the overall point here, but the fact that the UAE (or perhaps just Dubai) seems to have a somewhat strong music scene runs counter to the place being completely ass-backwards.
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The whole "blaming women for rape" is so stupid.
It's like blaming someone for having their own car stolen.
Or blaming a dead murdered person for being murdered.
I'm surprised that all the women in these countries haven't snapped and raised holy hell!
In India, there's the Pink Sari Brigade, a bunch of vigilante women in bright glorious pink saris who beat the tar out of rapists & woman-beaters (any guy who mistreats anyone who's female). I would love to see a Pink Hijab Brigade! That would so RULE! Put the fear of Al-LAT into them (to me, Allat's a 'female Allah').
This brings to mind a comment I wish to make about the "Free Jahar" clowns out there.....Ladies, I know you think the surviving Boston Bomber is the cutest boy ever (even I admit that I find him extremely attractive...but I know he's despicable scum) but remember, he killed & maimed innocent people, among the dead an 8 year old boy...and this above mess involving this Norwegian woman is the kind of thing he'd probably SUPPORT! He's an Islamic Fundamentalist...a belief system based on misogyny, bloodshed, prudery & shame....not very sexy. I don't care if Dzokhar resembles the photogenic results of a Star Trek transporter mishap involving Syd Barrett, Louis Garrell (a young French actor, was in The Dreamers, very cute) & Aladdin (Disney version)....he's a killer fundie and fundieness & sexiness are exclusive!
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And to think my new Muslim flatmate said Dubai wasn't that bad compared to other countries...
The UAE is a shithole. Dubai is a city that pretty much entirely appeals to the wealthy and people with connections. The whole country lives under restrictive religious laws, and human rights are essentially nil unless you've got the money for it.
Not to completely derail, but I've recently found a lot of music from the UAE that I'd have thought was socially intolerable until about two weeks ago. Not to say that it disproves the overall point here, but the fact that the UAE (or perhaps just Dubai) seems to have a somewhat strong music scene runs counter to the place being completely ass-backwards.
Exactly what do the authorities in the UAE think of those metal bands you posted on the forum before?
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And to think my new Muslim flatmate said Dubai wasn't that bad compared to other countries...
The UAE is a shithole. Dubai is a city that pretty much entirely appeals to the wealthy and people with connections. The whole country lives under restrictive religious laws, and human rights are essentially nil unless you've got the money for it.
Not to completely derail, but I've recently found a lot of music from the UAE that I'd have thought was socially intolerable until about two weeks ago. Not to say that it disproves the overall point here, but the fact that the UAE (or perhaps just Dubai) seems to have a somewhat strong music scene runs counter to the place being completely ass-backwards.
Having good music doesn't mean your government and culture aren't insane, douchey or both. Look at Germany (oh they of thin skins and eager censors), or Finland (having a state church that people pay for in the 21st century, even if you can opt out, is stupid), or the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s in America (or the 2000s or 2010s, for that matter). In fact, I'd go as far to say, the better the rock and metal, and the bigger the number of fans, the more likely you (and likely many others) find your government repugnant. That's ignoring the metal and rock put out by jock types that came to the party in the late 1990s and the 2000s.
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And to think my new Muslim flatmate said Dubai wasn't that bad compared to other countries...
The UAE is a shithole. Dubai is a city that pretty much entirely appeals to the wealthy and people with connections. The whole country lives under restrictive religious laws, and human rights are essentially nil unless you've got the money for it.
Not to completely derail, but I've recently found a lot of music from the UAE that I'd have thought was socially intolerable until about two weeks ago. Not to say that it disproves the overall point here, but the fact that the UAE (or perhaps just Dubai) seems to have a somewhat strong music scene runs counter to the place being completely ass-backwards.
Having good music doesn't mean your government and culture aren't insane, douchey or both. Look at Germany (oh they of thin skins and eager censors), or Finland (having a state church that people pay for in the 21st century, even if you can opt out, is stupid), or the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s in America (or the 2000s or 2010s, for that matter). In fact, I'd go as far to say, the better the rock and metal, and the bigger the number of fans, the more likely you (and likely many others) find your government repugnant. That's ignoring the metal and rock put out by jock types that came to the party in the late 1990s and the 2000s.
Granted. Considering, however, that bands in neighboring countries paint their faces so they aren't executed for performing (or at least so nobody knows who they are), that certain aspects of the culture are moving forward. It may not advance much faster than a slow crawl, but given the surrounding nations, it seems like a small step forward, for whatever that's worth.
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Too bad they couldn't go Arnold Schwarzenegger Commando on their asses and busted her out.
I mean, there's no excuse for this? Religious bullshit should never trump human rights.
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And to think my new Muslim flatmate said Dubai wasn't that bad compared to other countries...
The UAE is a shithole. Dubai is a city that pretty much entirely appeals to the wealthy and people with connections. The whole country lives under restrictive religious laws, and human rights are essentially nil unless you've got the money for it.
Not to completely derail, but I've recently found a lot of music from the UAE that I'd have thought was socially intolerable until about two weeks ago. Not to say that it disproves the overall point here, but the fact that the UAE (or perhaps just Dubai) seems to have a somewhat strong music scene runs counter to the place being completely ass-backwards.
Having good music doesn't mean your government and culture aren't insane, douchey or both. Look at Germany (oh they of thin skins and eager censors), or Finland (having a state church that people pay for in the 21st century, even if you can opt out, is stupid), or the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s in America (or the 2000s or 2010s, for that matter). In fact, I'd go as far to say, the better the rock and metal, and the bigger the number of fans, the more likely you (and likely many others) find your government repugnant. That's ignoring the metal and rock put out by jock types that came to the party in the late 1990s and the 2000s.
Granted. Considering, however, that bands in neighboring countries paint their faces so they aren't executed for performing (or at least so nobody knows who they are), that certain aspects of the culture are moving forward. It may not advance much faster than a slow crawl, but given the surrounding nations, it seems like a small step forward, for whatever that's worth.
Yeah. Here's hoping for their government not to last too long.
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HAH!
As long as the area has oil, nobody gives a damn about what they do to anyone.
Ironbite-but when that runs out....
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Kaboom?
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HAH!
As long as the area has oil, nobody gives a damn about what they do to anyone.
Ironbite-but when that runs out....
Yeah, but I was thinking more Libya than Iraq.
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She has been pardoned (http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/22/world/meast/uae-norway-rape-controversy/), but I want to still rage because she was only released after international pressure. I bet she would still be in jail if no one outside the UAE had expressed outrage. >:(
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She has been pardoned (http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/22/world/meast/uae-norway-rape-controversy/), but I want to still rage because she was only released after international pressure. I bet she would still be in jail if no one outside the UAE had expressed outrage. >:(
Why should you rage over a pardon? This is a GOOD thing, because it means that another country was able to put pressure on some folks to stop human rights violation.
Rage when nothing gets done. Don't rage when the problem gets solved.
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Okay let me clarify. Yes it is good she was pardoned but she shouldn't have needed that pardon in the first place, since the reason for her arrest was completely assinine. I guess I still want to rage because the fact a victim can go to jail for being victimized completely disgusts me and it is unfathomable that a delevoped nation has such absured and backwards laws in the first place.
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They also let the rapist go free, completely unpunished. That really pisses me off.
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They also let the rapist go free, completely unpunished. That really pisses me off.
What? I thought he was supposed to get 13 months for the other stuff he did?
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They also let the rapist go free, completely unpunished. That really pisses me off.
What? I thought he was supposed to get 13 months for the other stuff he did?
Yeah, supposed to. But they're pretty much treating the whole thing like it never even happened in the first place, which means the rapist scumbag goes unpinished too. It's great and all that they're letting the Norwegian woman go, but this is still pretty fucking outrageous.
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Yeah, supposed to. But they're pretty much treating the whole thing like it never even happened in the first place, which means the rapist scumbag goes unpinished too. It's great and all that they're letting the Norwegian woman go, but this is still pretty fucking outrageous.
The perpetrator was her co-worker, but does anyone know if he is Norwegian or Arab or what?
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Yeah, supposed to. But they're pretty much treating the whole thing like it never even happened in the first place, which means the rapist scumbag goes unpinished too. It's great and all that they're letting the Norwegian woman go, but this is still pretty fucking outrageous.
The perpetrator was her co-worker, but does anyone know if he is Norwegian or Arab or what?
They talked about this for a few seconds on CBC today. They said he was from an African country. I wanna say Ethiopian, but there's a good chance I'm misremembering it.
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She has been pardoned (http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/22/world/meast/uae-norway-rape-controversy/), but I want to still rage because she was only released after international pressure. I bet she would still be in jail if no one outside the UAE had expressed outrage. >:(
YES! She's been pardoned!
I'm happy for her! Thankful for the International Community & furious at the idiots who caused this problem in the first place!
The utter misogyny of it all! Even if I were an idiot who bought their "adultery" BS (and I don't), logically the guy would be equally punished.
But since they put it all on the woman & have that double-standard, it only shows that's they just loathe anyone female! They can eat my own crap! Bastards!
Looking at these societies, I get the impression that, in these guy's minds, males are the humans and females are these offshoot-things used to reproduce more male/humans. The whole "Adam/Eve - Rib" thing taken to it's most logical, and deranged, conclusion.
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She has been pardoned (http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/22/world/meast/uae-norway-rape-controversy/), but I want to still rage because she was only released after international pressure. I bet she would still be in jail if no one outside the UAE had expressed outrage. >:(
YES! She's been pardoned!
I'm happy for her! Thankful for the International Community & furious at the idiots who caused this problem in the first place!
The utter misogyny of it all! Even if I were an idiot who bought their "adultery" BS (and I don't), logically the guy would be equally punished.
But since they put it on the woman & have that double-standard, it only shows that's they just loathe anyone female! They can eat my own crap! Bastards!
Well to be fair, they were going to charge the rapist as well, but now that she's being let off, so is he, which is infuriating. Although, even when they were both convicted, the rapist still got less time than she did, so still definitely a misogynistic system.
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It'd be nice if the rapist just "disappeared".
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Yeah read that he had gotten off as well and it's like "Dah...fuck?"
Ironbite-then I realized where it was and just shook my head.
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The rapist was from Sudan, if I remember correctly. I thought he'd surely face charges since public intoxication is considered a more serious offense there. I'm glad the victim is free to go, but this whole case is rage-inducing.
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And this is why I hate humanity sometimes.
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http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterfliesandwheels/2013/07/oh-and-also-youre-fired/ (http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterfliesandwheels/2013/07/oh-and-also-youre-fired/)
Being imprisoned wasn't enough. Now she lost her job because of it.
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http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterfliesandwheels/2013/07/oh-and-also-youre-fired/ (http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterfliesandwheels/2013/07/oh-and-also-youre-fired/)
Being imprisoned wasn't enough. Now she lost her job because of it.
JEEZ!
Y'know, I'm going to say something right now that's sure to be misconstrued as misandrous. But first, I must explain that I'm treating the concept of physical sex & gender principles as separate things. 6000 of this Kyriarchy bullshit has to END NOW!
Looking at the list of qualities related to Patriarchy & the list of qualities related to Matriarchy, one sees that the latter is much healthier & more humane.
Here's my statement....Male & Female sexes are equal but the Masculine Principle is SUBORDINATE to the Feminine Principle!
Feminine is but Masculine must become. We are all female when first conceived in the womb. Masculine cannot do a thing well without the Feminine. Shiva's a mere corpse without Shakti.
Allah is zilch without Allat. Yahweh needs His Shekhina! The Hebrews & Muslims were stupid for throwing out the Feminine.
Of course, many societies worshiped Goddesses and were still misogynist but the rejection of the Feminine in even the Higher Power is even more heinous.
I would love to show these little pansies who irrationally and, against all logic and common sense, punish a woman for being a victim of a brutal assault....
(http://i40.tinypic.com/iz6vl4.png)
BEHOLD! THE BLACK STONE IN THE KAABA IN MECCA....CRADLED IN THE VULVA OF THE SUPREME MOTHER!
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http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterfliesandwheels/2013/07/oh-and-also-youre-fired/ (http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterfliesandwheels/2013/07/oh-and-also-youre-fired/)
Being imprisoned wasn't enough. Now she lost her job because of it.
JEEZ!
Y'know, I'm going to say something right now that's sure to be misconstrued as misandrous. But first, I must explain that I'm treating the concept of physical sex & gender principles as separate things. 6000 of this Kyriarchy bullshit has to END NOW!
Looking at the list of qualities related to Patriarchy & the list of qualities related to Matriarchy, one sees that the latter is much healthier & more humane.
Here's my statement....Male & Female sexes are equal but the Masculine Principle is SUBORDINATE to the Feminine Principle!
Feminine is but Masculine must become. We are all female when first conceived in the womb. Masculine cannot do a thing well without the Feminine. Shiva's a mere corpse without Shakti.
Allah is zilch without Allat. Yahweh needs His Shekhina! The Hebrews & Muslims were stupid for throwing out the Feminine.
Of course, many societies worshiped Goddesses and were still misogynist but the rejection of the Feminine in even the Higher Power is even more heinous.
I would love to show these little pansies who irrationally and, against all logic and common sense, punish a woman for being a victim of a brutal assault....
(http://i40.tinypic.com/iz6vl4.png)
BEHOLD! THE BLACK STONE IN THE KAABA IN MECCA....CRADLED IN THE VULVA OF THE SUPREME MOTHER!
Spuki, you're in nutter mode again.
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Mode suggests she gets out of it. I can hear her hyperventilating through the typing.
That said I think she would really enjoy the "Greek Myths" by Robert Graves which steps through the change in Greece from Matriarchal society and Mythos to a patriarchal one and how the principle of the Universal Mother worshipped by the Native Pelasgians was subordinated to the Patriarchal worship of the invading Hellenes (Achaeans, Ionians and Aelolians)
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http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterfliesandwheels/2013/07/oh-and-also-youre-fired/ (http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterfliesandwheels/2013/07/oh-and-also-youre-fired/)
Being imprisoned wasn't enough. Now she lost her job because of it.
As douche-tastic as getting fired for being victimized is, it's probably a good thing if Ms. Dalelv is no longer working under the authority of these cretins. Less chance of something similar happening again. Hopefully she can find employment with people who aren't raging misogynist fucktards.
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I'm sorry for my "Nutter Mode". I'm fine, again.
I just want to know when this misogyny B.S. started. There's evidence that prehistoric hunter-gatherer society was more or less egalitarian. I'd love to know who was the guy who got the bright idea to lord over women rather than work with them.
It's been several millennia. C'mon guys, it's getting old.
I wish progress wasn't so dang SLOW!
I'm amazed that after several thousand years of this, women everywhere haven't snapped. There are many good men out there, women & men should join forces to put those misogynist males in their place. Misogynist males are non-men, they're worms.
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I'm sorry for my "Nutter Mode". I'm fine, again.
I just want to know when this misogyny B.S. started. There's evidence that prehistoric hunter-gatherer society was more or less egalitarian. I'd love to know who was the guy who got the bright idea to lord over women rather than work with them.
It's been several millennia. C'mon guys, it's getting old.
I wish progress wasn't so dang SLOW!
I'm amazed that after several thousand years of this, women everywhere haven't snapped. There are many good men out there, women & men should join forces to put those misogynist males in their place. Misogynist males are non-men, they're worms.
Pretty much agreed. I'd imagine that some spouse-abusers got into power and spread the idea. From there, guys just realized they could control everything due to being the hunters and having the physical strength.