Author Topic: Valueless musicians  (Read 15381 times)

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Offline Igor

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Re: Valueless musicians
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2013, 08:27:01 pm »


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Offline That Guy

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Re: Valueless musicians
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2013, 08:36:06 pm »
While I'll agree that things like Justin Bieber, Nicki Minaj and Ke$ha are basically products to be sold, I'm still not going to bother hating on them because I don't see the point.  They will succeed and make millions whether or not I think they're enjoyable to listen to, but at the same time they are no better than plenty of that cheesy 80s synth pop, or those novelty songs from the 50s and 60s.  Things like this have always existed and they always will.  It's just better to focus on music that you like as opposed to stuff you hate to me, I dunno.  I'll continue being a dorky punk kid and other people can continue listening to heavily commercialized pop, I don't care.

Offline Søren

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Re: Valueless musicians
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2013, 08:55:25 pm »
I dont mind those musicians. If they want to sell their music and make money. Whatever, its the consumers choice. Sure its a little sad that popular music can come from one of the freakiest looking people ive ever seen, but to each their own, not much you can do about it
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Offline PosthumanHeresy

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Re: Valueless musicians
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2013, 08:51:18 am »
I'm going to avoid quoting This Is The New Shit, because, um, I don't wanna be too obviously obsessive. Popular music has lost it's meaning. Hollow anthems of sex, drugs and whatever musical fad is in are the new order of the day. While I can enjoy dubstep, it's a sign that music is regressing so far backwards it's becoming completely meaningless. The only meaning dubstep can ever have is "Party, fuck, etc!" It has no emotion, no message, no point. Even pop music and boy bands had hollow, meaningless vocals born of an executive's need for another solid-gold dildo to watch his hookers use on each other. The most depressing part is that pop music wasn't always like this. It used to be that actual talent went into it, because that was the only way. Other genres, too. I consider Trent Reznor to be more impressive than pretty much almost every other rock and metal musician, because on Nine Inch Nails' studio albums, he plays every instrument and just edits it together. It's not synths, and it's not a band, either. He's just extremely skilled with just about every instrument you can think of. There are no modern day Trent Reznors. I don't fault bands for doing studio albums as bands, no problem there because it's logical. Trent's insane. But, additionally, he's a better producer than all of the idiots producing now. When he had Nothing, he was signing real talent, and additionally, never fell into the Loudness War. Perfect way to see that is to compare Marilyn Manson's first two albums and his later work. Reznor mastered the first two alongside Manson. The rest were done by standard Interscope/Nothing lackeys (except Born Villain, which still was mastered utterly horribly, showing that Manson needs better Hell, Etc staff), because Manson and Reznor were and still are acting like children towards each other. But, returning to pop music, pop music from anything before the 1990s was good, because you still had to work at it. You still had to be good. You had to at least have a functional band and singer. Now, all you need is a producer. That's not to say all modern music sucks, just pop music (and dubstep, while fun, is like birthday cake, you devour it and forget it). There's still good bands starting up, like Taking Dawn, The Treatment and Picture Me Broken. Just, pop is dead. Rock, meanwhile, seems to be undead. I guess the Zombie Rawk Machine is going good. So, find bands that will rock the hell out of you, and additionally, stick to the good classics. And, attack anyone running a classic rock station that plays Nine Inch Nails, Nirvana and other stuff that, while awesome, is not classic rock. Because, it's not classic rock. It's awesome, but get your damn definitions straight.
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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Valueless musicians
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2013, 06:05:21 pm »
Without meaning to be confrontational, I'd like to point out that a lot of the criticisms targeted at dubstep were also targeted at heavy metal, glam rock, and even good ol' rock 'n' roll.

Fact is, 90% of all music is shit.  This hasn't changed since the dawn of mankind and will continue until we all die a horrible heatdeath.
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Offline PosthumanHeresy

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Re: Valueless musicians
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2013, 06:09:03 pm »
Without meaning to be confrontational, I'd like to point out that a lot of the criticisms targeted at dubstep were also targeted at heavy metal, glam rock, and even good ol' rock 'n' roll.

Fact is, 90% of all music is shit.  This hasn't changed since the dawn of mankind and will continue until we all die a horrible heatdeath.
I know, and that's part of the reason I enjoy it. My problem is, it lacks lyrics. That takes away so much ability to have meaning. You'll never have a dubstep song with such an anguished performance as metal had with Disturbed's Into The Fire. You'll never have a dubstep song with such a heartfelt emotional song like glam rock's power ballad Coma White, by Marilyn Manson (the album, Mechanical Animals, is glam rock, they change genre, a lot). You'll never have a dubstep song with a strong message like rock had with Fortunate Son by Creedence Clearwater Revival. Dubstep will never have songs legendary for causing fingers to bleed. Dubstep will never change the viewpoint millions of Americans. Skrillex will never go on The O'Reilly Factor and win or face tons of death threats and protesters, or Congress trying to legislate his livelihood. You can't have a dubstep love song. You can't have a dubstep break up song. You can't have a dubstep fight song. You can't have a dubstep "I am making this so I do not kill that motherfucker" song. You can't have a dubstep song that terrifies the nation, you can't have a dubstep musician that can be protested by thousands yet get on The Muppets. You can't change the world with dubstep.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 06:13:51 pm by PosthumanHeresy »
What I used to think was me is just a fading memory. I looked him right in the eye and said "Goodbye".
 - Trent Reznor, Down In It

Together as one, against all others.
- Marilyn Manson, Running To The Edge of The World

Humanity does learn from history,
sadly, they're rarely the ones in power.

Quote from: Ben Kuchera
Life is too damned short for the concept of “guilty” pleasures to have any meaning.

Offline chitoryu12

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Re: Valueless musicians
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2013, 06:29:56 pm »
Well, what made Manson different from most mainstream music isn't the music itself. It's what he used the music for.
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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Valueless musicians
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2013, 06:43:39 pm »
Without meaning to be confrontational, I'd like to point out that a lot of the criticisms targeted at dubstep were also targeted at heavy metal, glam rock, and even good ol' rock 'n' roll.

Fact is, 90% of all music is shit.  This hasn't changed since the dawn of mankind and will continue until we all die a horrible heatdeath.
I know, and that's part of the reason I enjoy it. My problem is, it lacks lyrics. That takes away so much ability to have meaning.

Beethoven and many other composers would like to disagree with you, actually.
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Offline PosthumanHeresy

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Re: Valueless musicians
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2013, 06:48:01 pm »
Well, what made Manson different from most mainstream music isn't the music itself. It's what he used the music for.
I would agree, and would say the same about many other rock and metal musicians. The thing is, dubstep cannot be used like that, as it does not support a lyrical structure. It would be a new genre altogether if someone tried writing dubstep with lyrics.

Without meaning to be confrontational, I'd like to point out that a lot of the criticisms targeted at dubstep were also targeted at heavy metal, glam rock, and even good ol' rock 'n' roll.

Fact is, 90% of all music is shit.  This hasn't changed since the dawn of mankind and will continue until we all die a horrible heatdeath.
I know, and that's part of the reason I enjoy it. My problem is, it lacks lyrics. That takes away so much ability to have meaning.

Beethoven and many other composers would like to disagree with you, actually.
I would disagree with them, because they have mood. They set a tone, a feeling, a mood, but they cannot tell a tale, say a powerful line, or relate to the listener. Classical music, from Beethoven to Marty O'Donnell, is awesome, but it still does not have the same power as any genre with lyrics can have. You can have a somber classical song, but you cannot have a classical song about being with the one you love at the end of the world. You can have a powerful, inspirational song, but you can't focus that inspiration into a specific thing to be inspired to do, whether it's to fight back against an oppressive society or save the environment.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 06:49:52 pm by PosthumanHeresy »
What I used to think was me is just a fading memory. I looked him right in the eye and said "Goodbye".
 - Trent Reznor, Down In It

Together as one, against all others.
- Marilyn Manson, Running To The Edge of The World

Humanity does learn from history,
sadly, they're rarely the ones in power.

Quote from: Ben Kuchera
Life is too damned short for the concept of “guilty” pleasures to have any meaning.

Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Valueless musicians
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2013, 06:56:35 pm »
I think you underestimate what music can communicate.

That being said, I would argue that dubstep doesn't necessarily communicate.  But then I've heard dubstep with lyrics so yeah.
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Offline chitoryu12

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Re: Valueless musicians
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2013, 07:01:33 pm »
Instrumental music can communicate very well, but it depends heavily on the talent of the musician. Also, the problem of interpretation means you often need to tell the audience just WHAT the story is.

One good example of an artist who can do that is Buckethead. Shortly after Michael Jackson's death, he made a song called "Homing Beacon" that essentially uses nothing but a single guitar to go through the entirety of his career and life.
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Offline PosthumanHeresy

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Re: Valueless musicians
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2013, 07:04:07 pm »
I think you underestimate what music can communicate.

That being said, I would argue that dubstep doesn't necessarily communicate.  But then I've heard dubstep with lyrics so yeah.
I've heard dubstep that has a few lyrics, but nothing constituting a song, just some lines. And, music can only communicate so much. For example, Flight of the Valkyries. You can put it to any attack, and it has the same feeling, no matter who is attacking. A somber instrumental song can be used at any somber moment. Hell, a NIN mostly piano song with no lyrics was used in Katrina cleanup advertisements. It was never created for that, but it could be used that way, because it's just a sad sounding piano song. Without a specific meaning to the song, it's a mood, a theme. You can have "mysterious alien fortress" music, "spying music", "infiltrating music" more, but you can't, say, have a song about a guy who was obsessed with his ex, but is now finding himself instead consumed with homicidal rage towards her. It's too complex for instrumentals.

Instrumental music can communicate very well, but it depends heavily on the talent of the musician. Also, the problem of interpretation means you often need to tell the audience just WHAT the story is.

One good example of an artist who can do that is Buckethead. Shortly after Michael Jackson's death, he made a song called "Homing Beacon" that essentially uses nothing but a single guitar to go through the entirety of his career and life.
The problem of interpretation is my main point. You need a backdrop. If you played that song for someone before MJ died (hypothetical you has a time machine), they wouldn't have the needed backdrop. Now, if it had vocals about the life and death of MJ, suddenly it's quite clear.
What I used to think was me is just a fading memory. I looked him right in the eye and said "Goodbye".
 - Trent Reznor, Down In It

Together as one, against all others.
- Marilyn Manson, Running To The Edge of The World

Humanity does learn from history,
sadly, they're rarely the ones in power.

Quote from: Ben Kuchera
Life is too damned short for the concept of “guilty” pleasures to have any meaning.

Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Valueless musicians
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2013, 07:27:33 pm »
Personally, I think the ability to widely interpret the meaning of music is a very positive thing, and that songs with only a single meaning are boring.
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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: Valueless musicians
« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2013, 07:29:15 pm »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMrxJfvSnn8

Clear program, almost no lyrics. Tell me it's boring, just tell me.
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Offline chitoryu12

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Re: Valueless musicians
« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2013, 07:32:59 pm »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMrxJfvSnn8

Clear program, almost no lyrics. Tell me it's boring, just tell me.

...yeah, it is kinda boring for me.
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